NASA’s Sean Duffy stunning management

Time Markers

00:00 – Episode introduction
00:31 – Welcome
00:43 – A shock decide
01:44 – Duffy’s historical past
02:34 – An uncommon performing administrator
03:49 – When will somebody be nominated?
04:37 – Working two full-time jobs
05:57 – Artemis proponent
07:52 – Lunar nuclear reactors
09:45 – NASA’s funds
12:59 – Resistance in Congress
13:41 – Industry view
15:30 – Mars information

Transcript – Jeff Foust Conversation

Mike Gruss – Hello and welcome to the Space Minds Podcast. I’m Mike Gruss from SpaceNews, and I’m joined right this moment by Jeff Foust SpaceNews, a senior workers author who covers NASA and civil area.

Jeff, we’ve not talked on the podcast a lot this summer time, however NASA has a brand new performing administrator in Sean Duffy, so let’s begin there. Talk to me about when he was named the Acting Administrator, and what sort of accompanied that entire change.

Jeff Foust – Yeah. I imply, he got here out of nowhere, principally to be named Acting Administrator of NASA. He had been secretary and remains to be Secretary of Transportation because the starting of the present Trump administration, however principally there was a fact social publish by the President on a Wednesday evening in July, about two months in the past, asserting that Duffy would additionally tackle the position of Acting Administrator of NASA, and he has been serving in that place since then. He’s acknowledged he doesn’t know the way lengthy he’ll be in that place. He mentioned an inside Town Hall a few week in the past that, you realize he’s, he’s serving on the pleasure of the President, and he doesn’t know if he’s going to be round for a day a month a yr.

Mike Gruss – Yeah, and what? What did we learn about him earlier than this occasion? I imply, we talked concerning the Secretary of Transportation. He frolicked in Congress. Did we learn about an curiosity in area, or a ardour for area, or a selected enterprise acumen, like, what? What made this appear to be match?

Jeff Foust – Yeah, you realize, one of many the explanation why it was stunning is that he had probably not talked about area in any respect, apart from in very passing references in his position as Secretary of Transportation, which incorporates the FAA when FAA oversees business launch actions. But there may be nothing in there to recommend a need or craving or explicit experience to be handed the reins of NASA, however that’s what’s occurred.

Mike Gruss – Yeah, and on this. And I do know we reported on the time that we had that hadn’t occurred earlier than, too we hadn’t had an performing administrator in from on this capability. Obviously, there’s been a number of performing directors, however not within the in the best way that Duffy form of took it.

Jeff Foust – Yeah, historically, the performing directors or NASA have been senior officers inside NASA itself, civil servants, sometimes the Associate Administrator, who’s the very best rating civil servant, though at the start of the Trump administration, the White House picked Janet Petro, who was the director of the Kennedy Space Center, to as an alternative function performing administrator, and the belief was she was going to proceed in that position for the foreseeable future. Of course, there was all of the turmoil concerning the nomination, after which the revoked nomination of Jared Isaacman to be NASA Administrator.

You know, his nomination being pulled simply days earlier than he was set to be confirmed by the Senate. That put a, you realize, an enormous query mark, by way of the way forward for who can be working NASA. And you realize, to be clear, the White House has but to appoint somebody to function NASA Administrator. So whoever goes to be the Acting Administrator goes to be serving in that position for months to return.

Mike Gruss – Yeah, and I do know we’ve form of joked about it that, hey, a brand new nomination might are available in 5 minutes, or it might are available in six months, however there’s no, there’s no cause to suppose that there’s, there’s somebody on the best way round, the best way quickly.

Jeff Foust – Yeah, I imply, there have been rumors, significantly proper after Isaac males’s nomination was withdrawn about varied people who could be nominated. The President had mentioned that he would decide somebody quickly. That’s been greater than three months now, there was no nomination, and the rumor mill has actually died down. So once more, it’s attainable, provided that Duffy’s choice as Acting Administrator got here out of nowhere, a nomination for a brand new NASA Administrator might equally come out of left discipline. But there’s no cause to suppose that something is coming anytime quickly, proper?

Mike Gruss – And we talked about, he’s the Secretary of Transportation. Do we’ve understanding, or has? Has there been a number of dialogue about, how a lot time is he spending with the Department of Transportation? How a lot time is he spending with NASA? These are each clearly very massive jobs, proper?

Jeff Foust – I imply, each NASA, administrator and Secretary of Transportation, are full time jobs, and so he has to separate his time between each. He has been at NASA headquarters on a reasonably common foundation. He has been out to a few of the NASA discipline facilities. He was on the Johnson Space Center final month. He was down on the Kennedy Space Center on the finish of July for a business crew launch. So he’s getting on the market in that position as NASA Administrator. But you realize, earlier this week he was, you realize, in Indiana, a Interstate bridge building undertaking in his position as Secretary of Transportation.

Mike Gruss – You know, it’s whenever you mentioned, Hey, this nomination got here or this appointment got here in July. I assumed, man, was it solely July? It felt like earlier in the summertime than that, and once I was making ready for this, I used to be considering, hey, there’s perhaps been two or three form of key moments up to now this summer time the place Duffy’s form of been on the middle of the motion there. I’ve a brief record, however you realize, the place, the place do you suppose that he’s actually stood out? And it’s been like he’s put his mark on what’s going to occur with the company within the subsequent six months.

Jeff Foust – I feel what’s actually stood out is he’s change into a really ardent proponent, supporter of the Artemis lunar exploration marketing campaign. He has been on the market speaking a number of occasions that the US is returning to the moon, that we’re going to accomplish that earlier than the Chinese he’s been very adamant that he’s not going to permit China to land astronauts to the moon earlier than NASA can return astronauts there. He’s been very outspoken about that.

There was the case final week when a former NASA Administrator, Jim Bridenstine, testified earlier than the Senate Commerce Committee. He mentioned that, you realize, if he felt it was extremely unlikely that NASA would get there earlier than China, given the a few of the points with the starship, lunar lander, and Duffy in an inside Town Hall The subsequent day, you realize, mentioned he was offended about that, and people feedback by way of shade and all of NASA and you realize, once more, reiterated his need to press ahead with Artemis So he has change into, you realize, probably the most distinguished cheerleader for Artemis in lots of respects, and that’s been considered one of his largest actions in his two months in workplace up to now.

Mike Gruss – Yeah, that was somewhat, I assumed that was somewhat sudden, too. I feel perhaps, you realize, generally, significantly perhaps previously, that when feedback like what Bridenstine made had, had taken place that perhaps individuals shrugged or simply mentioned, okay, however I assumed the response to it, and I feel perhaps the the diploma to which he mentioned, You know precisely the phrase you mentioned, offended, that that that confirmed one thing that perhaps, perhaps I used to be taken again by. Of it, and didn’t count on that, that he was so invested in that the opposite, the opposite, one of many different storylines I wished to ask you about was this deal with lunar nuclear reactors. Talk somewhat bit about that, and, and, and the place he could be making a push there.

Jeff Foust – Yeah, he signed a coverage directive on the finish of July directing NASA to place ahead a plan to develop a nuclear reactor to be used on the floor of the moon, producing at the very least 100 kilowatts of energy and be prepared by 2030 it was attention-grabbing as a result of the directive got here simply a number of weeks after an out of doors report by the Idaho National Laboratory that had beneficial as considered one of its choices, pursuing a plan quite a bit like what’s within the coverage directive, a reactor of that measurement, using public non-public partnerships, relatively than a conventional authorities led program to develop this reactor. And so this was one thing the place, you realize, he was taking the chance to make pretty decisive motion.

Clearly, there was a number of occurring behind the scenes to develop this. I don’t suppose Duffy is an knowledgeable in nuclear energy methods, so a few of the particular particulars within the directive, like what use of energy converters that this reactor ought to use, had been most likely not at his urging, however he was actually offering the impetus to maneuver that program ahead.

Mike Gruss – Yeah, and I feel that’s, that’s what’s attention-grabbing about it, proper, to make use of your phrase, it’s that impetus, that push that’s coming from headquarters, that that these are the prior, these would be the priorities, and that is, that is the place the company is headed. I feel, you realize, a pair different issues that I used to be excited about was, you the story about some membership on the NASA Advisory, a few of the advisory committees.

There was a gathering with the top of Roscosmos, that the place NASA didn’t discuss quite a bit, however Russia did. But I feel you realize, the place there’s most likely nonetheless a number of questions are concerning the funds, and so how did, how do you form of body or take into consideration these questions of the funds? Obviously, this has been, I feel, by many accounts, an unpopular funds for lots of oldsters within the area business, for lots of oldsters in NASA. But Duffy was indirectly concerned, or doesn’t look like immediately concerned with with placing this funds collectively. How can we form of sq. his position within the funds and his position with the funds shifting ahead, perhaps until the top of the yr or longer?

Jeff Foust – Yeah. I imply, you realize, you’re right. You know, he inherited this funds proposal, which got here out in May, you realize, it was developed primarily by the White House Office of Management and Budget, which was taking, you realize, a really robust stance on decreasing spending. It was chopping NASA’s funds by about 25% areas like science and area know-how, getting cuts of nearer to 50% you talked about, it’s fairly unpopular. Both the House and Senate appropriations payments which can be at the moment working their means by way of the committees and onto the the total House and Senate largely reject the funds they’re offering near what the company obtained final yr, perhaps shifting some cash round between exploration and in science and issues like that, however largely rejecting the wholesale cuts that the administration was making an attempt to make in NASA’s funds.

You know, so Duffy has a query, does he try to defend that funds proposal, as you realize, the appropriations course of winds on, or does he acknowledge that that’s not going to occur? Likely, in Congress, and tries to search out, you realize, an alternate method to, you realize, protect some priorities in sure locations, you realize, and perhaps acknowledge that a few of the cuts that had been desired aren’t going to occur. One of the large challenges arising is we’re nearing the top of the fiscal yr. The finish of September is the top of the fiscal yr, and Congress is debating, is there going to be a unbroken decision to start out fiscal yr 2026 on October 1, and if that’s the case, how lengthy will that final? Or will there be a shutdown? Those are all open questions at this cut-off date.

There’s one other query about some considerations, significantly within the science group, that the administration may nonetheless attempt to enact parts of the fiscal yr 2026 funds proposal when that CR takes impact, resembling making an attempt to wind down any variety of science missions slated for cancelation of the funds proposal, though the House and Senate payments would largely or totally restore the science funds. And if that’s the case, would Duffy associate with that? Would he settle for that? And what would he argue to defend a transfer like that, given the doubtless opposition from each the science group and in addition from Congress?

Mike Gruss – We’ve already seen some hints of resistance, I feel, significantly from the Democrats who’ve warned NASA that, hey, don’t, don’t wind down these packages till, till we are saying, right.

Jeff Foust – Yeah, I imply that. You know that’s been an enormous concern amongst Democrats in each the House and Senate on on this difficulty, how a lot leverage they’ve is, is an open query, as a result of they’re within the minority in each the House and Senate, however they will actually complain very loudly and for stuffy to defend pretty unpopular funds cuts, and that could be one thing that he might not need to do. So we’ve to attend and see how that’s going to play out within the coming weeks.

Mike Gruss – You’ve talked to people in business on a regular basis. You’re speaking to people on the Hill. What, what are they saying about this 10 years up to now? And what are they in search of? What are they in search of from him, or what sort of selections are they anticipating from him within the subsequent couple months?

Jeff Foust – Yeah, I’ve talked with with individuals in some firms which have truly had conferences with Duffy. They have been, in some instances, pleasantly stunned. He appeared very engaged, very occupied with what’s occurring. You know, educated, maybe to extra of a terrific diploma than they anticipated, provided that, you realize, NASA administrator is part time job for him. But you realize, they appear, you realize, they appear constructive about that, however actually they need, you realize, to some sense of certainty, as a lot certainty as attainable on this time, by way of what course he’s going to take sure packages.

You know, you talked about the nuclear energy choice. There can also be the business area station choice to shift plans for tips on how to go to the subsequent section of that that’s inflicting a few of the firms which can be concerned to rethink their plans, as a result of NASA goes to take a special method to supporting these and maybe not instantly settle for completely crewed area stations, as was anticipated across the finish of the last decade. So individuals are in search of some extra understanding about, you realize, the place he stands on these points and the way that may have an effect on their plans. But once more, type of the large overhang query about that is, how lengthy is he going to be round? No one is aware of, together with himself. You know, how a lot of a imprint he can placed on the company when he could also be performing administrator for the subsequent yr, or simply for the subsequent week.

Mike Gruss – Well, one factor we do count on right this moment is September 9, as we’re recording this, he’s anticipated to talk tomorrow. Tell us somewhat bit about that and a few of the questions which can be going to return the place with a press name that he’s going to be a part of.

Jeff Foust – Yeah, and NASA introduced on Monday the eighth that they had been going to do a press briefing on comparatively quick discover on Wednesday the tenth to speak a few discovery made by the perseverance Mars rover. Perseverance is the rover that’s at the moment gathering samples of Martian rocks for eventual return to Earth, however it’s additionally performing some evaluation of these rocks.

The expectation is, you realize, we’re going to search out out some discovery, perhaps about bio signatures, proof of previous life, issues like that, of scientific curiosity. And it was attention-grabbing to see Duffy included on the record of audio system who can be taking part past NASA Science Leadership and the the scientists concerned. It’s attention-grabbing his inclusion, as a result of that funds proposal, that unpopular funds proposal we had been simply speaking about, requires canceling Mars pattern return this system to deliver again these samples perseverance has been gathering, in addition to canceling another current Mars missions and chopping the funds of the perseverance rover itself.

So there’s a chance that you realize, he might you realize, have fun a serious discovery made by a Mars mission, however then need to defend cuts to that and different Mars missions, which can be a bit uncomfortable, however he might use that to to make bulletins by way of adjustments in instructions or issues he needs to do in a different way with the funds proposal. It’s attention-grabbing that he’s included. It’s the primary time, truly, He’s participated in a NASA press convention since changing into Acting Administrator. Most of his media appearances have been restricted to hits on Fox News and some different tv networks. So truly having him in a press convention the place he’ll be taking questions from a broader swath of the media, might be noteworthy in and of itself.

Mike Gruss – Great. Well, Jeff, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us right this moment and to our listeners and viewers. Thanks a lot for watching and tuning in.