The Actual ROI of Having Fun at Work with Bree Groff

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About This Episode 

In this episode of The Future of Work® Podcast, office tradition skilled and creator Bree Groff joins us to problem outdated concepts about what work is — and what it might be. Drawing from her ebook Today Was Fun: A Book About Work (Seriously), Bree shares insights from many years of guiding Fortune 500 leaders via significant transformation.  

We discover why enjoyable at work isn’t a perk — it’s important. From the science of engagement to the influence of cozy groups, Bree presents a human-centered blueprint for reshaping our relationship with work, management, and one another. 

About Bree Groff

Bree Groff is a office tradition skilled and creator of Today Was Fun: A Book About Work (Seriously). She has spent her profession guiding C-suite leaders at firms comparable to Microsoft, Google, Pfizer, Calvin Klein, and Hilton via intervals of complicated change. She is a Senior Advisor to the worldwide consultancy SYPartners, beforehand served because the CEO of NOBL Collective, and he or she holds an MS in Learning and Organizational Change from Northwestern University. Bree lives in New York City along with her husband and daughter.

What You’ll Learn 

• Why enjoyable at work is a strategic crucial — not only a feel-good bonus. 
• How leaders can create “cozy teams” that thrive in each in-person and distant settings. 
• What “do nothing” days reveal about productiveness and burnout. 
• How to seek out that means in work — even with no grand sense of goal. 
• Why “living for the weekend” is a warning signal for office well being. 
• The delicate hyperlink between pleasure and artistic output in fast-paced industries. 
• What makes introverts, extroverts, and “otroverts” all crave human connection at work. 
• How vulnerability from management units the stage for psychological security and belief. 

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Transcript

Bree Groff

[ 00:00:00 ]As people, as staff, we’re spending five-sevenths of our lives every week at work. I might hope that the leaders respect and perceive the gravity of consuming human days.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:15 ] Bree, welcome. Thank you a lot for being with us right here on the Future of Work podcast. How are you?

Bree Groff

[ 00:00:20 ] I’m nice. Thank you for having me.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:22 ] It’s a pleasure. And I’ve been trying ahead to this episode as a result of we’re right here to speak about your ebook and primarily about…

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:00:31 ] The dynamics that occur at work, particularly if work is enjoyable or not, ought to it’s enjoyable or not? Who’s permitting work to be enjoyable or not? And I’m going to dive into my first query: why do you suppose or why ought to firms— Even probably the most worthwhile ones, Fortune 500 firms— care if their staff are having enjoyable at work? Why? Why ought to that care?

Bree Groff

[ 00:01:01 ] Yeah. Well, first, there’s the enterprise case, which I’ll admit is my least favourite case. But there may be one.

Bree Groff

[ 00:01:13 ] We know statistics like staff which might be engaged create firms which might be 17% extra productive, 21% extra worthwhile.

Bree Gr

[ 00:01:23 ] We additionally know this instinctually as properly. When we’re having enjoyable and engaged at work, we need to be there. We need to be contributing. We’re giving our goodwill and our abilities. So there’s the case to be made, there’s the worker engagement case to be made that you just want your folks rested and excessive performing.

Bree Groff

[ 00:01:43 ] But that’s not my favourite argument. My favourite argument, and I believe probably the most highly effective one, is the existential argument that, as people, as staff, we’re spending 5 sevenths of our lives every week at work.

Bree Groff

[ 00:02:00 ] And that’s far an excessive amount of to contemplate solely the enter to a paycheck, solely the enter to an organization’s backside line. And conversely, once we suppose from a management perspective, I might hope that the leaders respect and perceive the gravity of consuming human days. Which is actually what companies do, proper? What we used to name HR, human sources, as if such as you’ve received your metal, you’ve received your cotton, or no matter else you employ to make your items, and also you’ve received your human sources as properly. So if you’re consuming human days, I ought to hope that leaders take that critically sufficient such that they care in regards to the high quality of these days. Because when that care isn’t there, when folks aren’t having enjoyable, what we’re doing is we’re wishing our method via the week. We’re saying, ‘Oh, is it only Wednesday?’

Bree Groff

[ 00:03:01 ] When can it’s Friday? Oh my God, it’s Friday, lastly.

Bree Groff

[ 00:03:05 ] And once we want our method via the work week, what we’re actually doing is wishing our method via our lives. And in order that’s not good for people. It’s not good for productiveness or creativity or influence. It’s not good for a backside line. And it shouldn’t be good for leaders both. So I’m hoping to unfold that message that our days are price extra.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:27 ] No, and I completely suppose you’re proper. I imply, I believe there’s rather a lot occurring proper now in between hybrid work. Is the four-day work week going to occur? Yes or no. But I believe everyone seems to be form of caught on that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:03:44 ] on that that you just talked about everybody’s dwelling for the weekend we’re simply wishing and hoping that it turns into friday rapidly the place we get to to stay our lives for 48 hours if if even that as a result of on You know, the Sunday scaries creep up and also you don’t actually have two full days.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:04:05 ] But I imply, I don’t suppose that lots of people on the finish of the day can truly sigh and say, at this time was enjoyable. And what does that actually imply?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:04:21 ] How can somebody finish their day and really say to themselves, at this time was enjoyable? What do you hope readers of your ebook take away from that title?

Bree Groff

[ 00:04:37 ] You hit the nail on the top by way of what the aim is. The aim is, look, not all days. Some days are horrible. Some days are hectic. But most days of our lives, and due to this fact most days that we’re working, we should always have the ability to curl up in mattress and say, ‘Today was fun.’ How to make that true? I might need written a ebook about this, so there’s much more to say, however briefly, the benefit of pleasure and enjoyable at work is that you just you don’t should get your entire pleasure from the identical place. You can truly form of diversify the locations the place you’re discovering pleasure at work. So there’s an entire chapter on camaraderie. You can consider the present, The Office, which many individuals have seen. There’s no goal or that means there. It’s an workplace comedy set in a paper gross sales business. It’s immensely boring.

Bree Groff

[ 00:05:34 ] offense to anybody listening who’s in paper gross sales at the moment however as a rebuttal to the notion that our work must be purposeful and deeply significant to have pleasure i simply i don’t suppose that’s true as a result of perhaps You just like the folks. Maybe the relationships imply probably the most. Like perhaps you’re simply having enjoyable at work since you’re spending your days with folks you want. That’s a method. Now, perhaps you hate the folks and there’s no that means. It’s like, properly, what do I do then? Well, perhaps you’re studying some expertise and really studying expertise is admittedly enjoyable. Growing our expertise, displaying off our expertise, or perhaps there’s no expertise to be discovered in any respect. You really feel like I’ve been on this business ceaselessly. Maybe you’re mentoring somebody and that offers you pleasure. Maybe doing the work itself, the method of the work. So I may go on and on, however the level is there’s so many alternative methods to seek out satisfaction, achievement, enjoyable at work.

Bree Groff

[ 00:06:35 ] Now, a whole lot of occasions folks actually, really need me to outline enjoyable and I actually resist it.

Bree Groff

[ 00:06:41 ] I’m self-reflecting on why that’s true, however I believe it’s as a result of I would like folks to know for themselves the variety of what enjoyable can really feel like. Sometimes enjoyable is… Sitting in a quiet room by your self, having a extremely attention-grabbing thought, typically—certain— it’s like laughing at a desk with colleagues and making paper airplanes, or , any variety of various things. What I’m hoping is to at the very least begin elevating the dialog, opening the query of whether or not work must be enjoyable most days. Well, then, how can we begin making it so? Which is a a lot completely different orientation than work is known as work for a motive. Work is meant to be drudgery. Why would I even attempt to make it enjoyable? That’s not the purpose of labor.

Bree Groff

[ 00:07:32 ] But my rebuttal can be: we don’t receives a commission as a result of work is painful and folks wouldn’t do it. We receives a commission as a result of we create worth. The ache is elective. So if we need to have enjoyable whereas we work, that’s 100% on the desk for us.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:07:49 ] That rings true. And I assume what I might ask is, is it extra as much as the employee? Let’s see, how can I phrase this? Who is accountable?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:00 ] for making a enjoyable atmosphere within the office? Is it from the highest down? Is it from the underside up? Or is it a mixture of each? Because I believe proper now it’s…

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:18 ] There’s a whole lot of, I’ve been studying rather a lot about this. There’s a whole lot of mediocre management, they’re calling it, going round.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:27 ] And I consider there’s lots of people which might be, such as you talked about, in a scenario the place their work doesn’t deliver them pleasure.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:37 ] They’re actually sitting both in an workplace or at work ready from 9 to occur to 5.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:08:44 ] Is it as much as one to make it a enjoyable work atmosphere or ought to one anticipate that management brings that to the desk? What are your ideas on that? And so as to add a bit extra spice into that, is it simpler to have enjoyable, would you say, in an workplace setting or in a distant setting?

Bree Groff

[ 00:09:05 ] Oh my gosh. Such query.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:07 ] Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. This is a tough one.

Bree Groff

[ 00:09:09 ] First one. So there’s, the best way I give it some thought, there is a perfect reply and there’s a backup reply.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:09:17 ] Okay.

Bree Groff

[ 00:09:18 ] Or a really perfect resolution and a backup resolution reasonably.

Bree Groff

[ 00:09:22 ] The supreme resolution is that leaders are liable for creating situations and tradition and a context wherein individuals are having enjoyable. That is the best resolution as a result of there’s no getting round the truth that energy exists in organizations. The individuals who do the paying of the paychecks have that energy. As a lot as we wish to suppose and hope that, , worker energy is a factor, unions are a factor, , like prime expertise is a factor. And but, inside a company at finest, it begins from the highest.

Bree Groff

[ 00:10:00 ] Now that takes a frontrunner and a management crew that actually consider in these two arguments that we talked about.

Bree Groff

[ 00:10:10 ] People having enjoyable at work, having fun with their days is effective as an finish unto itself. And quantity two, they should consider that that’s truly good for enterprise, which it’s. Now, like I wouldn’t anticipate any chief to say, ‘Oh, we’re going to have a lot enjoyable at work and screw the cash as a result of no, it is advisable have a wholesome enterprise. You have to have the ability to pay folks unemployment.

Bree Groff

[ 00:10:31 ] In declaring chapter, it’s the alternative of enjoyable. So don’t go there. So if a frontrunner believes each of these issues are true, then it’s actually as much as the management crew to do, to place some structural issues in place. For instance, How are you metering out work such that individuals are not overworking nights and weekends? But additionally culturally, how are you displaying up as human and enjoyable and, like, first rate to hold round on the workplace? So that’s the best reply.

Bree Groff

[ 00:10:58 ] The backup reply, the backup resolution, is admittedly what I deal with within the ebook. Like, look, I’m on the firm I’m at. I’ve the management that I’ve. What can I do as a supervisor or as a person worker?

Bree Groff

[ 00:11:14 ] To make work enjoyable. And there’s nonetheless a lot to be carried out, which is the excellent news. You can work at a company that’s like, doesn’t adhere to any of those concepts or ideas, however on the native crew stage, one managers can accomplish that a lot to create what I name cozy groups, which is admittedly know on the on the supervisor stage you consider your self such as you’re the ceo of the crew in some ways so how are you making it protected to joke round making it protected to be a human making it protected to deliver attention-grabbing concepts how are you rewarding folks and constructing one another up And then lastly, perhaps you’ve none of that. Maybe your group’s horrible. Your supervisor is horrible. And in that case, I say, look, you’ve nonetheless levers at your disposal. One is one thing what I name skinny slicing your pleasure. So even for those who have a look at your complete day and also you’re like, oh no, I’ve received conferences. I’ve received duties I actually don’t need to do.

Bree Groff

[ 00:12:16 ] I’ve uncomfortable conversations forward of me. I need to do none of it. And the query is: look, if a day is simply too lengthy to have enjoyable. Is there one hour the place you’re fairly certain that’s going to be an okay assembly? The hour is simply too lengthy. Is there one minute you go get your self a cup of espresso and also you benefit from the shit out of that cup of espresso? Like, what are some ways in which you’ll find company in what brings you pleasure?

Bree Groff

[ 00:12:40 ] And then, as a bonus on the particular person stage, if you’ll find one buddy at work.

Bree Groff

[ 00:12:46 ] you then’re actually off to the races there’s a lot analysis on having a finest buddy at work it does all kinds of excellent issues for the enterprise um improves like security profitability issues like stock management for i don’t understand how that one got here out within the analysis nevertheless it’s true um simply somebody to dm a wink to makes all of the world of distinction okay so my very lengthy reply see this is the reason i wrote a ebook as an alternative of in a 30-minute podcast as a result of i’ve a lot to say however let me cease there No, however that makes whole sense.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:20 ] As you had been saying this, I used to be attempting to suppose if at any level in my private skilled life, I didn’t have a finest buddy at work, if you’ll. And I can’t consider…

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:13:36 ] any scenario wherein I didn’t have somebody I may lean on, I may joke round with, I may even simply unhealthy mouth different folks. That’s typically it’s enjoyable, ? Oh my God, yeah. But I do consider that what you say is true. When it comes from the highest down, it simply makes it so that everybody feels protected to have enjoyable, to joke round, to deliver their full selves to work, no matter which means. But completely, I completely.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:14:09 ] I completely perceive that. Do you suppose that this Do you suppose that having enjoyable at work wants to return together with goal? Does somebody have to really feel goal so as to have enjoyable? Or may it’s such as you mentioned, I actually like that instance of the workplace. I don’t suppose anybody there had goal. They had been simply there promoting paper, besides perhaps Dwight. He had like a aim.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:14:39 ] But do these two come hand in hand? Having satisfaction at work requires goal and the opposite method round— or no?

Bree Groff

[ 00:14:49 ] No. And I believe I’m within the minority for this argument. There has been an enormous upswell in writing, analysis, consulting, concentrate on goal and that means at work, particularly as an alternative choice to ‘we only exist to make money.’ And so for that, I applaud it. Like I’ve carried out goal consulting work myself.

Bree Groff

[ 00:15:10 ] So I need to be clear that I’m not anti-purpose right here. Feeling goal and that means in your work is an excellent factor. It’s nice. And it’s additionally not essential to have enjoyable. It’s not essential to have day. I consider goal and that means as one supply of achievement.

Bree Groff

[ 00:15:30 ] Out of that range of choices that you’ve obtainable to you, the workplace instance is a superb one the place you didn’t— you’re not capable of pull that goal or lever, a goal or that means lever, however you’ll be able to pull the friendship and shenanigans lever. That’s truly sort of fantastic. I even suppose again to a number of the like, least perhaps historically significant jobs I had. I I after I was in highschool, I labored as a dancer in a magic present at Six Flags. It sounds enjoyable, it’s so enjoyable, . And I understand how to do the psychological gymnastics to get myself to goal. I might say, like, I used to be offering a second of respite for folks to return to a park, to spend time with their households, their youngsters. I used to be creating awe and magic and I used to be offering a way of surprise on the earth.

Bree Groff

[ 00:16:31 ] Like that’s how I might go about it if I’m attempting to create a goal assertion for magicians.

Bree Groff

[ 00:16:37 ] But actually, like.

Bree Groff

[ 00:16:40 ] Who cares that’s like such an enormous leap? Why ought to we have now to do all this psychological gymnastics? Like, can’t I simply get pleasure from the truth that, like, it was fairly badass, studying magic tips that I actually preferred, hanging out with the the opposite dancers and the magicians that I used to be like studying cool expertise I used to be performing?

Bree Groff

[ 00:16:59 ] You know, I believe the identical about any, um, about any job. You know, you consider like a janitor in an workplace constructing, they’d should undergo like these psychological leaps to say, ‘I’m sweeping the ground such that these folks can then promote branding work, , on this advertising workplace,’ or you can simply say, ‘Hey, like it’s fairly superior that I could make this one small a part of the world clear and that’s, after which I receives a commission for it.’

Bree Groff

[ 00:17:31 ] So that’s my rebuttal. Um, it’s, or it’s actually like an invite from, for us to suppose extra expansively, I assume, about what offers us an excellent day.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:17:41 ] Yeah, I believe we received to form of begin shifting our mindset, such as you say.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:17:49 ] And one thing you talked about a bit earlier was the time period ‘cozy teams.’ I need to dive a bit bit into that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:17:59 ] What does having or being a part of a comfy crew truly imply?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:18:07 ] As a supervisor, and I’ll be taking notes as a result of I’m one, how can one make it in order that their crew is a comfy one? What are some easy actions managers or management can take or do to offer what you’re referring to a comfy crew?

Bree Groff

[ 00:18:24 ] Yeah, okay. It’s one in every of my favourite ideas. Um, I may give a bit little bit of a definition after which two practices. Cool. First, the definition: it’s what it seems like. If you’ve ever been a part of a crew the place you’re feeling protected, heat, cared for, such as you’re in it collectively, regardless of any form of blizzard or twister that’s occurring outdoors. So for those who suppose cozy vibes, proper? Like we’re approaching the autumn.

Bree Groff

[ 00:19:01 ] It’s that feeling of being snuggled up. And even when there’s a chill outdoors, in some ways in which makes it ever extra wealthy to really feel protected and heat inside.

Bree Groff

[ 00:19:15 ] So each native supervisor can create this with their direct crew or, or, um, direct studies, as a result of coziness, because it implies, there’s a smallness about it. There’s a.

Bree Groff

[ 00:19:30 ] You know, I can see the 4 partitions round me and the folks within the area with me. So that’s form of what it looks like. On a day-to-day stage, folks would possibly say issues like… I really like my teammates. We get alongside so properly. We struggle, nevertheless it’s fantastic as a result of we’re like debating the work— there’s, or in educational phrases, there’s a psychological security.

Bree Groff

[ 00:19:52 ] Ways to get this. So my two favourite methods for creating cozy groups are the check-in ritual and the person guide.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:20:01 ] Okay.

Bree Groff

[ 00:20:02 ] So to start out with the check-in, that is only a structured solution to ask everybody on the crew, ‘How are you?’ And you then truly hear and you then go about your day. So a whole lot of groups, after I apply it to groups, I take advantage of it religiously for consulting groups when we have now a each day standup. We do it the primary 5 minutes of each each day standup. Or for those who don’t have a each day assembly, a weekly assembly, regardless of the cadence is, and it goes like this. You say, ‘Okay, how’s all people doing? Let’s verify in. Scale one to 5.

Bree Groff

[ 00:20:35 ] Personal, skilled, all the things in between. You’re going to place it in your fingers. Everyone raises their fists and we go three, two, one, go. And then everybody, you set it up a 4, a two, a one. If you’re on a display screen, that’s fantastic. In individual, that’s fantastic. You can see one another’s numbers. And then in about 30 seconds, you run across the room and everybody simply says, ‘Why? You say, ‘Oh, I’m a two.

Bree Groff

[ 00:20:56 ] I tweaked my again. I’ve been having again issues for ages.’ I’m truly going to be screened off so I can simply lie horizontal whereas we take this assembly. But in any other case, I’m good. Someone else says, oh, it’s my birthday this weekend, and I’m so enthusiastic about our product launch. I’ve simply been having all these nice concepts.

Bree Groff

[ 00:21:14 ] So you get the thought. It’s like private {and professional}. And the trick is doing it constantly. The quickest solution to a comfy crew is bearing witness to one another’s lives, each sharing your life and receiving.

Bree Groff

[ 00:21:32 ] Now the trick of a check-in too, you don’t should say like, you don’t should share private particulars or something you don’t need to for the people who find themselves like, I’m not bringing my full self to work. You know, you don’t have to inform them about your ldl cholesterol report if that doesn’t really feel protected. um however you sharing a bit little bit of one thing of your self after which additionally receiving from another person and it’s fast it’s like 5 minutes and it’s such an excellent accelerator of belief in order that’s one making work human it’s actually human Yeah, I really feel like typically we’re caught on this power of, we’re simply monkeys pushing buttons.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:22:19 ] And, and I believe, such as you say, when when leaders can truly create that kind of atmosphere, I believe, I believe. When leaders are susceptible and categorical vulnerability, that’s when the precise enjoyable can start. That’s when folks begin to see the corporate as what we should always see all firms as: it’s an atmosphere of individuals. We must be folks inside them. Period.

Bree Groff

[ 00:22:53 ] Yeah.

Bree Groff

[ 00:22:55 ] It’s like, it’s such a foolish train in some methods as a result of it’s simply making formal and ritualized the very human act of being like, ‘Hey, how are you? How are you?’ There’s a lot behind it too. Like I say it form of all shortly, however there’s additionally such as you’re growing psychological security, you’re growing cognitive offloading. Or the notion that if you verbalize or externalize what’s operating via your mind, you’ll be able to then concentrate on the duty at hand.

Bree Groff

[ 00:23:29 ] It thwarts any miscommunication. So the one who’s digicam off— you could be like, ‘What a jerk.’ They’re not paying consideration at our assembly, however now I do know that their again is unhealthy. So it has so many advantages in that method, priming contributions so that individuals converse once more.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:45 ] And I believe within the office we have now introverts, we have now extroverts. I believe they simply— I learn one thing about that they’re…

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:23:56 ] They simply created this new one for folks that aren’t extroverts or introverts. I can’t keep in mind what the time period is. Otrovert? I can’t keep in mind. I believe earlier than they launched this new one, they had been calling them ambiverts. But there’s those who want different folks to really feel satisfaction. And there’s those who form of draw back from others to achieve satisfaction. And you talked about do nothing days as a technique for work and for constructing creativity.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:24:29 ] Can you dive a bit deeper into that? Do nothing days. I form of get the place you’re getting at, however. What would you say about these do nothing days?

Bree Groff

[ 00:24:39 ] Yeah.

Bree Groff

[ 00:24:41 ] So it’s a bit disappointing after I begin speaking about them as a result of individuals are like, it’s a mattress rot day. I do know what that’s. Netflix all day. Take out. pajamas, no bathe. It’d be superior. So it’s not that, though that additionally sounds nice. So you go for it. Do nothing day is a time period. We coined for basically an off-site with no agenda. That’s one of the best ways to explain it. Um, me and my buddy and colleague Sue Walsh got here up with the thought many moons in the past. Now, as we had been main consulting groups, realizing that when shoppers come to us and pay us the massive bucks, they’re not paying us to be tremendous quick at responding to their emails, though we attempt to be. They’re paying us for good work, for influence, for bettering their enterprise in a large method.

Bree Groff

[ 00:25:42 ] And what we realized it was like that was simply actually exhausting to do in 30-minute increments once we’re getting collectively for like, okay. Now we have now to consider some new concepts for what we’re going so as to add to this expertise or this like, contact level with the shoppers. And it simply felt like our brains couldn’t breathe.

Bree Groff

[ 00:25:59 ] So we mentioned, okay, what would occur if we blocked one complete day the place we dedicated to producing nothing, we had been going to take no conferences, e-mail, no emails, make no studies, simply.

Bree Groff

[ 00:26:13 ] Nothing. We had been going to inform our brains, you’re off the hook. And as an alternative, we spent the entire day dreaming. So it’s a do nothing day, nevertheless it’s a suppose all the things day. Another method to consider it’s that we regularly get our greatest concepts within the bathe. Right. And in fact we instinctually know why that’s as a result of there’s no know-how round. Nothing’s demanding our consideration. We’re simply, our palms are busy shampooing or whatnot, and our brains are free to only form of wander. So we mentioned, properly, what, what, what if we took the notion of a bathe and made it a clothed group bathe? Scandalous. But you get the place I’m going with this. Yeah. A day of unstructured pondering. So we went to a park. We had some free prompts. There had been components of the shopper engagement that we knew we had to consider. So we’d say, like, okay, this part, let’s simply chat about it. So we sat within the park.

Bree Groff

[ 00:27:08 ] And we simply went the place the dialog took us. If the dialog received boring, we stopped having it. If one thing was actually attention-grabbing, somebody was like, ‘Yeah, write that down.’ And now I’ve carried out this so many occasions and each time one of the best thought, probably the most like pivotal change in understanding or one thing that we wanted to generate, they all the time come from that day.

Bree Groff

[ 00:27:34 ] Now, the trick is you’ll be able to’t be like, ‘We better have a great idea that day because your brain will freak out.’ But it’s a solution to form of hack your mind and respect what human brains really want, which is time, area.

Bree Groff

[ 00:27:47 ] um the power to form of socialize concepts as properly with out constraint so um i learn rather a lot about it within the ebook there’s like prompts and directions for how you can do your personal however i discovered they by no means fail yeah that That truly brings me to, and I imply, I really like that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:08 ] And that truly brings me to burnout the place, I imply, the statistics present that at the moment, um, as of now, the workforce, the workforce is.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:22 ] burnt out greater than ever, particularly millennials in administration positions.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:29 ] And I believe some folks discover pleasure or happiness in work, however to an excessive. I believe I’m going to categorize myself inside that.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:28:43 ] At occasions the place I truly contemplate myself to be somebody who has enjoyable at work. So I really feel privileged in a method, however then I form of are likely to go to the extremes the place it’s work, work, work, work, work. And I neglect about life.

Bree Groff

[ 00:28:59 ] Yeah.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:00 ] How does that have an effect on somebody’s functionality? Because what you simply talked about rings true.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:07 ] I believe in my private expertise, once we overdo work, once we overwork, we are likely to get into this cycle of uncreativity. And we typically have to step away from it to…

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:24 ] to essentially make sense of all of it.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:29:27 ] What’s the danger of those people who find themselves perhaps having an excessive amount of enjoyable at work? Is that one thing that may occur? Can somebody have an excessive amount of enjoyable at work the place it’s form of like the alternative?

Bree Groff

[ 00:29:40 ] Yeah. Oh, for certain.

Bree Groff

[ 00:29:44 ] Myself included. I’ve usually had an excessive amount of enjoyable at work as a result of that’s truly form of the top of the spectrum that I have a tendency to seek out myself on. That for me, it’s straightforward to overwork. I normally don’t really feel like.

Bree Groff

[ 00:29:58 ] oh just like the individual on the prime is bearing down on me and i’ve to work so as to please normally i really feel like that is enjoyable and necessary and that i need to get all this stuff carried out and that i need to do job so it’s normally of my very own doing when i’m overworking So there’s a number of prices, although, that we simply have to pay attention to.

Bree Groff

[ 00:30:18 ] I believe the obvious relating to burnout is once we overwork and underlive.

Bree Groff

[ 00:30:28 ] That’s simply the character of human finitude. Like, nobody is inventing extra hours within the day. So sooner or later in our, some factors in our lives, it’s truly sort of fantastic. Like I do know in my twenties, pre-partner, pre-kid. I used to be craving to work extra. I keep in mind telling my bosses, like, I received extra to present, extra within the tank.

Bree Groff

[ 00:30:52 ] Because there wasn’t as a lot alternative value.

Bree Groff

[ 00:30:56 ] Now in my 40s, I believe like oh train is definitely actually necessary to me. I want this physique to get me going the place I have to go for the remainder of my life. You know, now I’ve a daughter and a companion, and so I spend time with them. I even have a father with Alzheimer’s, and so I’m a caregiver. It’s simply that, once we overwork, we have now to contemplate the chance prices. So for some folks, they’ll say, ‘Yeah, little opportunity costs.’ I’m having the time of my life.

Bree Groff

[ 00:31:22 ] Now, which may be true, and I purchase it. But additionally, I believe there’s a second case to be made, which is what you’re making.

Bree Groff

[ 00:31:32 ] That even for those who don’t need to relaxation as a result of resting is good and also you get to try this as a human, nonetheless, there’s the like every Olympic athlete goes to have relaxation intervals and their coach goes to ensure of it.

Bree Groff

[ 00:31:49 ] Because the physique simply doesn’t function at peak efficiency except you’ve a few of that. Similarly to what you mentioned about perspective and creativity, if you’re filling your days with…

Bree Groff

[ 00:32:02 ] like manufacturing and output you’re not truly stopping to suppose extra expansively after which lastly i might say like there’s additionally a price relating to the way you’re displaying up as both a colleague or a frontrunner for those who don’t have a way of perspective like oh this function on this one product truly simply doesn’t matter in any respect. Like for those who don’t have that and as an alternative you’re saying, all people, we have now to double down. Everyone’s going to be right here until 9 p . m. tonight. We should push that. You know, now you’re simply leaking your life selections throughout all people else. And that’s not truthful. um and in addition you’re in all probability you’re in all probability lacking the power via for the timber as they are saying like properly sure there’s one function on this one product however like can we expect a bit bit extra expansively on once more alternative value for those who’re focusing a lot right here what else are you lacking by way of different alternatives or threats which might be coming down the road so one million and a half completely different causes to tempo your self i adore it i adore it um we’re nearing the top of our episode and simply earlier than Just earlier than we wrap up, I discovered one thing very attention-grabbing in your ebook that I hadn’t seen in different books.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:33:21 ] You included a crossword puzzle. Why did you do this? I discovered it to be, I don’t know, intriguing. I needed to ask, why did you embrace a crossword puzzle in your ebook?

Bree Groff

[ 00:33:31 ] um there’s one evaluate i received of the ebook the place somebody was like this creator is admittedly quirky like certain yeah like i’m simply displaying up as myself i included the crossword puzzle Um, for a lighter motive and for a deeper motive, the lighter motive is definitely, I simply actually love crossword puzzles. A enjoyable truth about me. I, my. The best declare to literary fame earlier than this ebook is I’m the love curiosity in a ebook about aggressive crossword puzzles, a nonfiction ebook known as Crossword World.

Bree Groff

[ 00:34:10 ] Um, go decide it up— discover all of the salacious particulars written in regards to the the love curiosity of the crossword puzzle match. Um, however yeah, my aunt Helené used to really run the American Crossword Puzzle Tournament. I simply i like the vibe, I really like the neighborhood. I was a decide there, which is why I used to be there. Wow. No, there’s identical to, it’s my very own little private Easter egg.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:34:34 ] Love it.

Bree Groff

[ 00:34:34 ] But then, secondly, the deeper motive is as a result of I couldn’t deliver myself to put in writing a ebook about humanity and enjoyable that was identical to 300 pages of analysis and case research—That’s not that enjoyable, and never that human. So I assumed in writing the ebook, I assumed rather a lot in regards to the expertise of studying it and like what would truly give the reader not simply an mental expertise, I’m eager about enjoyable at work, however how may I truly make that second. of them studying the ebook.

Bree Groff

[ 00:35:12 ] Literally enjoyable proper then and I assumed like, properly, what’s extra enjoyable than a crossword puzzle? Um, so I had any individual—I paid somebody to, an expert constructor— made the crossword puzzle. It has themes from the ebook woven in. Okay, and I used to be attempting to say, like, I do know you’re studying a non-fiction ebook that’s hopefully , bettering your expertise in your life, but additionally it’s completely fantastic to do one thing only for the enjoyable of it. That’s truly a part of the purpose.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:35:41 ] And it’s, I believe, it’s typically, it’s typically the little issues that matter probably the most, those that go probably the most unnoticed.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:35:52 ] I’d like to wrap up our episode saying that I actually admire you being right here with us. I extremely advocate our viewers to go purchase the ebook. Where would you advocate our listeners to both get in contact with you, discover the ebook?

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:10 ] Because I believe there’s a chance right here for people who find themselves not.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:15 ] feeling like they’re having enjoyable at work to perhaps take this chance to get the ebook and discover the area inside your workday to learn it and also you would possibly study one thing and that might be your little enjoyable do nothing time the place can the place can our listeners get the ebook and speak to you Yeah.

Bree Groff

[ 00:36:33 ] Well, you will get it wherever books are offered, however extra direct reply is you’ll find me at my web site, briegroff . com or B-R-E-E-G-R-O-F-F . com. And from there, you’ll find hyperlinks to purchase the ebook. You can subscribe to my sub stack. You can discover me on LinkedIn and Instagram. And I hope you all learn it and adore it and clear up a crossword puzzle.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:36:58 ] Awesome. Thank you a lot for you for being with us. I hope we get an opportunity to do a component two.

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:37:03 ] Would adore it.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:37:05 ] And thanks a lot for being part of the longer term work podcast. Yeah.

Bree Groff

[ 00:37:09 ] Thanks for having me.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:37:10 ] Have an excellent day.

Bree Groff

[ 00:37:11 ] You too.

Daniel Lamadrid

[ 00:37:12 ] Ciao.