The Art of Astronaut Photography

From Earth orbit to the Moon and Mars, discover the world of human spaceflight with NASA every week on the official podcast of the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Listen to in-depth conversations with the astronauts, scientists and engineers who make it potential.

On episode 397, NASA astronauts Don Pettit and Matt Dominick share their experiences capturing beautiful pictures from the International Space Station. This episode was recorded July 17, 2025.

Producer’s Note: Don and Matt offered us with a lot of the imagery mentioned on this episode, so please take a look at these images additional down the web page!

Transcript

Joseph Zakrzewski

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 397: The Art of Astronaut Photography. I’m Joseph Zakrzewski, and I’ll be your host for this episode. On this podcast, we deliver within the specialists, scientists, engineers and astronauts, all to let you realize what’s occurring on this planet of human spaceflight and extra.

Astronauts aboard the International Space Station orbit Earth each 90 minutes, experiencing 16 sunrises and sunsets every day, and from 250 miles above the floor, they’ve a view of the planet like no different. It’s breathtaking, however capturing that magnificence on digicam that takes ability, apply, timing and just a little little bit of engineering know the way.

Today we’re joined by two NASA astronauts who know their method across the station, apertures, and ISOs, Don Pettit and Matt Dominic. Between them, they’ve captured a number of the most iconic pictures from orbit. We’ll hear how pictures turned part of their area flight journeys, and what it takes to shoot unimaginable pictures in microgravity, and what photographs they’d nonetheless like to seize the following time they fly.

Let’s strike a pose from station.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Hello, Don and Matt. Thank you a lot for approaching Houston We Have a Podcast in the present day.

 

Don Pettit

We actually do have a podcast!

 

Matt Dominick 

Excited to be right here.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

The artwork of astrophotography and astronaut pictures is one thing that’s extremely subtle and thrilling, particularly if you mix that blend of artwork and science. But I wish to return to your origin tales of what received you interested by this artwork kind, and if you had been in a position to go up on orbit on the International Space Station to maximise these alternatives to showcase that artwork kind. So Don I’d love to begin with you, what received you into pictures and what introduced this curiosity to this stage.

 

Don Pettit

My mom was concerned about pictures. She would take footage that illustrate youngsters’s tales with them, and she or he had a few footage revealed in Life Magazine. So I grew up with pictures within the family, after which after I was round six or seven, I received a Brownie, a Kodak Brownie digicam. It’s just a little brown field digicam that shot, I believe it was 124 movie, and I’d shoot black and white, as a result of that’s all I might afford, and I’d develop it and print, print the photographs out in with utilizing the tools that my mom had. So that’s how I received into pictures, and I haven’t stopped since.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

That’s a good way to begin at that younger of an age. Matt, how did you become involved and the place did that curiosity start for you?

 

Matt Dominick

I don’t assume it was like a single level. It was simply a lot of little factors alongside the way in which that form of developed a want to try this. I believe mainly for me. You know, rising up, my dad was a, was a photographer professionally for the Air Force, after which went into it, you realize, within the non-public sector, then journalism, then additionally gross sales. And so watching him produce commercials for tv or the varied issues in his occupation, and seeing what it actually was about, or promoting issues was about, principally about telling a narrative. And- as a result of individuals bear in mind issues higher when you inform it in a narrative, such as you can provide individual a reality, and so they’ll principally bear in mind it typically. But then when you inform them a narrative that you realize, that’s it goes again to, you realize, simply the historical past of people and the way we bear in mind issues is thru storytelling. And so for me, that pictures was about watching my dad inform tales, after which rising up and studying the great solution to inform a narrative, or body an image to inform a narrative, after which occurring area. So few individuals get to do that, and I really feel like a way of obligation to share as a lot as I can with humanity in that regard. And so I believe a great way to try this was to take an image. And so, took, we took a variety of footage, like a bunch, however oftentimes it wasn’t simply in regards to the image. I appreciated it. I loved telling the story of how, how the image was taken, proper? So, hey, I took this image. I took 10,000 makes an attempt to get this one body good. Here’s the wrestle, right here’s the place I screwed up, right here’s the place I succeeded. And sharing that story, I believe, shares what we see and what we do in area, it makes it extra human.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Well, you rolled proper into my subsequent level is, if you turned an astronaut, how did astronaut, how did that that thought means of wanting to inform a narrative? Because most of you realize earthbound tales. You know what by means of, by means of landscapes, by means of portraits, by means of what we see round us right here on Earth, however if you received that decision to be an astronaut, was that one of many first few ideas you regarded as this is a chance for me to, you realize, to excel human area flight, but additionally it’s an opportunity for me to inform that story. Was that one thing that that actually crossed your thoughts early on, after which how would you form it given the chance?

 

Matt Dominick

I imply,after I was chosen, my first thought was, was not pictures. But there was a deep sense of, holy cow, that is really taking place. And then an immense feeling of, oh man, don’t screw this up. Like there’s so many individuals on this planet that need this job, and a variety of my, you realize, lots of people I knew had been greater than, if no more certified than I used to be to do the job. And so you have got this sense of, man, I received to not allow them to down. I can’t let my associates down. I can’t let others down. Who would wish to be on this job. I had this six months sense of accountability to not screw it up.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Don, how did you roll into turning into an astronaut and seeing this pictures as a possibility to to to Matt’s level, inform that story, and on the similar time proceed, you realize the development of science and analysis, however on the similar time you realize, scratch that itch of pictures from a really completely different perspective?

 

Don Pettit

Well, the way in which you turn into an astronaut is… drum roll: put in an software. And in my case, I had to try this 4 instances over 12 years. You get the reject letter. It says, “Thank you for applying to the astronaut program due to a large number of highly qualified applicants. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And you realize what the remainder of the letter goes to say. And then lastly, you get the letter that claims, “Welcome to the astronaut program.” After that time, you’re just about buried within the coaching course of the technical elements of flying in area, as a result of, like Matthew simply mentioned, you don’t wish to screw that up. And when you get to the purpose the place, wow, I’m flying in area quickly, that’s if you begin serious about, how am I going to share this expertise with everyone else that didn’t get an opportunity to fly into area. And that’s the place my imagery is available in, sharing digital nonetheless pictures, or initially movie pictures, as a result of we had been taking pictures movie on my first mission. And then the movies, the video clips after which taking nonetheless pictures and making them into brief time lapse clips. All of those are venues for sharing the expertise.

 

Matt Dominick

I believe, to pile on what Don’s saying there, is I spent a variety of time pre-flight, working with Don and others to determine how I used to be going to seize time on Space Station, proper? How? You know, I did some like, tough math in my head of like, nicely, I’m going to take perhaps at the very least 1 / 4 million pictures, if I can save myself two seconds per picture in time expended. Because I’m so accustomed to the digicam, I don’t need to reference a process I can simply see and with out considering execute, I can save myself a bunch of time. And you may assume, nicely, six, eight months on Space Station is a very long time to determine it out. It’s not. Things go by rapidly, and so having the ability to bounce instantly into it. Especially, goodness, that first, the primary look out that window, you simply really feel this obligation to seize this. How do I share this view? Why is the dynamic vary of this digicam restricted to what 14 stops my eyeball sees a lot greater than this. How do I seize that to share?

 

Don Pettit

And then, when your mission is over, it’s images and recollections. That’s all you have got. And the recollections are inside you, and you’ll share these so far as you possibly can venture your voice or perhaps even having a podcast. But the photographs increase, in a really vital method, the tales that you would be able to inform. And it’s images and recollections after your mission. And when you don’t have the images, and also you simply have the recollections. And you don’t wish to end up on orbit choosing up the digicam and saying, “Now, how do you turn it on?” You must know use your tools, and you must apply method earlier than you even get near a rocket.

 

Matt Dominick

Yeah, after which additionally, I’ve been, I spent a while finish to finish. Meaning, okay, I’m going to get again and I’m going to have 25 terabytes of pictures. How am I going to handle this? How am I going to sort-

 

Don Pettit

Only 25 terabytes?! I’ve 60 terabytes of uncooked picture.

 

Matt Dominick

I did the mathematics on that drawback earlier than flight and began constructing infrastructure at my home. The payback price is about two years, however holding that quantity of stuff within the cloud could be very costly, and so having that a lot imagery at dwelling on this uncooked format, so simply now constructing a server and construction to deal with that in my home after which be capable to rapidly kind by means of it. And I used to be simply doing that the opposite morning. Just it was, it was bringing again, like Don mentioned, some actually cool recollections. I used to be going by means of footage and laughing at a number of the issues we noticed, did and and it, like I mentioned, it brings tales. So as I’m going across the planet to go to a PR occasions, I can pull up a picture and simply have a single picture and inform a 5 minute story about, wow, it is a loopy day on orbit. Here’s what occurs. Here’s how we seize this picture. Here’s the ten,000 pictures that failed.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

It’s spectacular to listen to, and I ought to have mentioned this as a precursor on the prime, that if these listening at dwelling, when you’re in a secure area to take action, please, as you’re listening to this podcast, pull up a few of Don and Matt’s work, as a result of it’s been phenomenal to comply with alongside, whether or not on their social channels or by means of nasa.gov however you talked about the telling of the tales and the quantity of images that you just’ve taken over time and what number of terabytes you must sift by means of all of them. Was there ever a time on orbit that you just might need had a narrative or an thought of perhaps what tales you may wish to inform whereas up there? But then, when you arrived on the International Space Station, that story made a change, or one thing might need occurred, or arrived at a conclusion to the place you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t expect to tell this story. Here’s what I want to do with that opportunity.”

 

Don Pettit

All the time! You launch with preconceived concepts of, Wow, I wish to do this type of picture and that form of picture. And right here’s a neat photo voltaic picture I wish to do, and this and that. And then you definitely get on orbit, and you are taking off in a distinct course, and that’s you. The setting of orbit speaks to you and form of leads you into instructions that you just didn’t anticipate. And that’s the cool factor about being in a frontier, if when you might pre-think about every part that was going to occur, it could be a boring mission.

 

Matt Dominick

Absolutely, I believe you you realize the army idea can be, you realize, no good plan survives first contact with the enemy. In this case, you realize, the entire planning we did to go take into consideration what footage we’re going to take don’t survive first contact with operations. But that’s you shouldn’t that doesn’t imply it’s best to forsake the planning. You do the plan. Planning so that you perceive the entire inputs and the outputs and the issues that will matter, after which you possibly can rapidly adapt and undertake to your setting. And so I had been planning this piece of video to describe propellant transfer, as a result of propellant switch is vital for the way forward for human spaceflight as we prolong the moon to Mars, and I’d been serious about it. And we had these water bottles within the dragon that had been used that, you realize, these traditional plastic water bottles. And I thought of this factor. I wished to do, this demo. I wished to do with an adapting to connecting two bottles, bottles collectively. And we posted it after flight, however linked the 2 bottles along with the three printed adapter that I printed on Earth previous to going. So that is my plan. But I spent six months stressing about how I’m going to shoot this, and I attempted a pair instances, and it simply didn’t work. It didn’t didn’t really feel proper, and simply redid it. And then Don confirmed up, after which it hit me how I might, how we might shoot this.

 

Don Pettit

Everything went downhill actual fast. Even although you’re in microgravity and there’s no downhill.

 

Matt Dominick

But it ended up being a significantly better story, as a result of we failed just a few instances earlier than we succeeded.

 

Don Pettit

Oh, you imply you squirt water throughout me.

 

Matt Dominick

That was a win, nevertheless it wasn’t the plan.

 

Don Pettit

Good factor we had a variety of towels obtainable.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Well, that’s an important level that you just guys make, too. And some I wished to dive into is, if you strategy pictures and storytelling, how do you handle that line of artwork and science? How do you, you realize, be sure you seize the science components that is perhaps, you realize, required of a state of affairs or of an experiment or what you may see out the window, however do it in an clever method that also offers it a singular perspective, versus simply straight, you realize, level and shoot.

 

Don Pettit

I believe it will get again to what Matthew was saying, you wish to inform a narrative, and also you arrange a composition that tells a narrative. And, oh, by the way in which, when you shoot, perhaps with a secondary digicam that’s trying parallel or perpendicular, now you might get dimensions and adjustments as a operate of time. And perhaps you place a size scale in there, or at the very least shoot just a few frames of the size scale, and now you possibly can again out scientific data on the similar time, you possibly can have an clever story. So I believe that’s central to preserving the scientific knowledge you possibly can extract from the imagery, in addition to having an clever composition that tells a narrative.

 

Matt Dominick

I believe we- considered one of our major missions up there may be science, and we now have an unimaginable set of instructors right here in Houston that practice us do predominantly technical and scientific pictures proper making an correct picture, getting correct lighting, in order that if you ship these pictures again to Earth for a science experiment, they will get the information they want. Or if, for the parents which can be repairing the area station, if there’s one thing broke on the area station, getting an correct picture again with acceptable scaling to allow them to see the failure and make the proper engineering selections. And in order that’s very a lot a scientific strategy or an engineering knowledge strategy that we had been skilled to do, however the artwork facet takes it to the following step. And so like Don mentioned, just like the second digicam is nice, proper? There had been a few instances Don was doing science experiments, however then I’d have a second digicam taking footage of daybreak, doing that, capturing the artwork of it, proper? And I’ve some nice photographs of that. Or. One time we I stored taking this, you realize, I received on this behavior sample of pushing the digicam all the way in which as much as the window body to simply give attention to the factor outdoors, like a hurricane or a sprite or no matter. But that simply form of appears to be like like a scientific picture. It’s simply the Earth. It’s simply this, simply that, however bringing within the human factor to make it clever. Okay, let’s, as an alternative of taking an image of the hurricane, simply the hurricane by means of the window, let’s present the human factor. So again the digicam out and expose it. So you’re uncovered for the hurricane, however you have got a depth of discipline later that, you possibly can put a masks on it after which deliver the window body into it and present that, oh, there’s a human trying by means of a window from area at a hurricane that’s about to hit their home. That begins telling the story and bringing within the human factor of the window body. Oh, there’s a human trying by means of this one. So deliver the window body into the image body.

 

Don Pettit

Just so as to add to that, there are a selection of various shapes of home windows on orbit, and oval home windows have a better esthetic measure, to me, than a round window or a trapezoid formed window. So when you you have got an oval window, and also you again the digicam up a bit, so that you seize the body of the window, I believe it has a a lot larger esthetic measure than if it’s a round window or or another form. And when you look on industrial airliners, a lot of the home windows are oval in form. And there’s, I believe, a cause for that.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Well, and it makes it relatable. And that’s precisely what I used to be simply considering of, is, you realize, at any time when you realize, everytime you take a, you realize, an extended kind picture or a nonetheless of, you realize, a shot outdoors the plane if you’re within the clouds or hovering over your favourite metropolis or a favourite landmark, you attempt to seize that oval as a result of it form of creates that foreground, center floor background and provides it that human factor. Well, talking of that human factor, simply listening to you guys discuss to one another, and earlier than we actually get into, you realize, the challenges and distinctive challenges of taking pictures from area. Some- you realize, it’s the environment round you, it’s what presents itself that may affect you and encourage you. But how did you guys encourage one another? What did you do to bounce concepts off of one another, to work? Because as artists, you realize, you have got a imaginative and prescient in thoughts, however then you realize, typically these influences of others, or perspective of others can assist change a few of that just a little bit alongside the way in which. So it’s enjoyable to listen to you guys work backwards and forwards of various, you realize, strategies, if you’ll, and views. But in your time on orbit and right here on the bottom, how have you ever guys labored collectively or approached completely different alternatives collectively?

 

Don Pettit

All it takes is a bag of espresso after which add Matthew and I being in the identical module.

 

Matt Dominick

We had, we had a blast at orbit, bouncing concepts off one another. I had sleep shifted to be a late evening individual, so I’d keep up late taking images, proper? And Don can be up tremendous early taking images. And then we had a short interval of some hours in the midst of the day that we might overlap, overlap and, like, go concepts backwards and forwards. But there was one evening. What was it? Was it a comet? It was the comet? Yeah, Don had simply gotten to orbit and simply go into area, like, it takes a minute to adapt, and Don was drained, and it was well past Don’s bedtime. But we now have this actually cool drawback in area is that you would be able to see one thing cool out the window over Earth, however you’re, for probably the most half, going to return again to that form of similar spot 90 minutes later. And so there have been a pair instances in orbit like I used to be with Jeanette, one time we had been within the cupola and we noticed an insane lightning storm over Africa. And I used to be like, wait a minute, we’re going to return over the identical lightning storm in 90 minutes, as a result of it’s so large, such as you shift on the earth a good distance. But this lightning storm coated a, you realize, time zone and a half. I used to be like, “Oh, we’re gonna see this again.” So I arrange cameras for the following 90 minutes, after which cap ended up capturing a sprite. So comparable idea with with Don one evening. It was like, Don, we received to see this comet. We received to see this comet within the Aurora. And Don was like, I’m going to mattress. He’s like, I’m going to mattress. It’s like, simply 90 minutes Don.

 

Don Pettit

It’s solely 90 minutes. It’s already previous my bedtime.

 

Matt Dominick

90 minutes previous your bedtime, however I’m utterly I used to be like, Well, Don, I’ll be there on my own. You’re gonna miss this actually cool stuff. But I gave a complete bunch of FOMO, and 90 minutes later, Don, half awake is available in, all proper, let’s take a look at this. And it was fairly cool.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, we had been fortunate sufficient to cross paths with three comets, though one of many comets was the final one shortly earlier than I returned, was nonetheless just a bit faint blob within the sky, however the two different comets had been really fairly spectacular. As far as comets go, and also you’re it’s dumb luck if you occur to have some form of pure phenomenology like that, whether or not it’s a complete photo voltaic eclipse or the transit of Venus or a comet, any of those pretty uncommon cosmic occasions, if it occurs throughout your six month keep or your seven month keep on station, that you just’re actually fortunate, and also you higher know use your digicam tools so as to seize it.

 

Matt Dominick

Oh, yeah, we had been tremendous fortunate. We had this total- We actually threw flew by means of the photo voltaic eclipse. And then we had insane Aurora, with all of the exercise with the solar and the comet. Goodness. We had been fortunate.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Wow. Well, and on that too. And earlier than we once more, I maintain going, we’re going to get into the technical elements to have your pictures too. Was there ever a second on station if you had been taking pictures, whether or not it was, you realize, of the of the sprites, which we’ll dive into. What these are, hurricanes, the photo voltaic eclipse, transit of Venus. Were there ever moments on orbit the place you had the digicam in entrance of you? You had been peering by means of the lens, making an attempt to border it up good? But the the second itself was simply so distinctive, so inspiring, so reflective and self reflective that you just, you realize, could have needed to take a take a beat to simply replicate on what you’re in a position to witness you personally, but additionally by means of the lens. Was there ever a time like that that you would be able to that you would be able to replicate on?

 

Matt Dominick

Yes.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski 

Can you share, fairly please?

 

Matt Dominick 

We had particular instances throughout our increment the place we simply, form of a few us would simply say, all proper, no footage. There had been simply typically the Aurora that we’d simply be like, All proper, as a result of it may be loads within the cupola with a number of individuals firing, making an attempt to seize, like, the second with Aurora. And there have been a pair instances we simply agreed, all proper, no cameras. And like, three of us would sit within the cupola and simply in, simply take the second in, as a result of you possibly can solely seize a lot with a digicam, particularly the transitions. When you go from gentle to day or day to nighttime by to day, day to nighttime. You know what I’m speaking about. The transitions are robust. So we had a pair instances this crew would really like, we’re simply gonna be cameras down, take pleasure in this second.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

I really like that. And it simply, it permits you simply to breathe it in, such as you see, you realize, instances you’re on Earth the place you go to a live performance or a marriage the place you simply, like, put the cameras away and simply be current.

 

Don Pettit

Rocket launches are a great instance of that. Maybe you’re three or 4 miles away and the rocket goes off and also you’re standing there together with your iPhone or one thing like that, perhaps you’d be higher off simply to look at the rocket launch. And then there’s dozens {of professional} photographers there. You might simply seize considered one of their footage off the web if you wish to illustrate with folks. There’s there’s one thing terribly human with you simply take within the occasion the place you’re not anxious about f-stop and shutter velocity and composition and looking out by means of the lens of a digicam.

 

Matt Dominick

Yep, Don taught me that after I went to a rocket launch. And I bear in mind going to the rocket launches later and passing that on. And now my advice is, when you go see a rocket launch, it’s simply watching people fly to area is insane. It’s an emotional occasion, particularly if you realize the individuals on the rocket. And the recommendation is, simply take one selfie with a rocket within the background, after which simply be sure you benefit from the occasion.

 

Don Pettit

Same factor with a complete photo voltaic eclipse. If you’re lucky sufficient, you’ve received perhaps two minutes, set a digicam up on a tripod on computerized, after which simply sit there and watch it and absorb regardless of the human emotion is for the full eclipse, after which take a look at your imagery afterwards.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

I believe it’s an exquisite solution to encapsulate what you guys do with pictures is it invokes an emotion with what you’re snapping, whether or not on orbit or right here on the bottom. And I like that tip of take a selfie, however simply be current within the second. Well, now let’s dive into a few of these distinctive challenges you talked about. You know, lighting and completely different components that you must undergo to to perform what you had been in a position to do whereas on the International Space Station or in transit. What are a few of these technical and environmental challenges that we right here on earth don’t essentially take into consideration that you just might need needed to alter, whether or not it’s in your coaching or on the fly in conversations between you two, as a result of I do know if we’re snapping images on Earth, we’re serious about the place the solar is, the place the clouds are, what the positions are, the shadows. But when lighting appears to be like just a little completely different, when the Earth itself appears to be like just a little completely different out of your perspective. What are a few of these challenges you needed to overcome and use, and even use to your benefit whereas, whereas on the International Space Station?

 

Don Pettit

I’d say the primary problem is home windows. You solely, you possibly can solely take footage of Earth wherever there occurs to be a window, and you’ll’t transfer over three ft to alter the composition to one thing that’s just a little higher, as a result of then you definitely’d be trying on the inside an aluminum hull. So you’re caught with what you possibly can see out the home windows, and you’ll fluctuate the angle of the digicam round just a little bit, perhaps shift the composition considerably, however you’re caught with the place the home windows are, and it will get worse earlier than it will get higher. These home windows, sometimes you have got two strain panes, which you need two strain panes In case one fractures, proper? So you don’t, you realize, like within the cheesy sci fi films the place any person will get sucked out a window, you don’t need that to occur to you. So it’s good to have two strain panes. So that’s 4 reflective surfaces proper there. And then there’s widespread to have a particles pane on the skin. And that is one other pane that protects the strain pane from getting whacked by micrometeorites, as it may possibly compromise the integrity of a strain pane. And once more, you don’t actually need that assume again to those cheesy sci fi films. So that provides two extra surfaces. So now you bought six reflective surfaces, after which, as a result of crew members have greasy noses and greasy heads, and so they, you realize, greasy fingers and these items at all times find yourself getting wiped on the within of the window there’s a scratch pane. And that provides and the scratch panes, once more, are considerably expendable, and also you’ve received two extra surfaces. So when you glarp up the scratch pane, then you might exchange the scratch pane, and also you haven’t glarped up the strain pane. So now this complete stack, it has eight reflective surfaces, and the NASA engineers will do their greatest to place anti reflection coatings on these, however you’re nonetheless going to have vital reflection off of all of those eight reflective surfaces. And the depth of this is perhaps a 5 or 6 inches, so that you’re form of trying by means of a tunnel with eight reflective surfaces, and that may very well be a bane of doing imagery, each daytime and nighttime imagery.

 

Matt Dominick

Windows are, home windows are robust. The excessive dynamic vary is hard, proper? You have the brightest of brights, the darkest of darks, and making an attempt to seize that with the digicam, we now have some fairly cool instruments, proper? That I believe the Z 9 is 14 stops or so, 15 stops of dynamic vary. One of the issues we discovered, or I discovered, particularly on orbit early, was was choosing an ISO that has extra dynamic vary than others, and accepting a number of the noise in consequence or not, settle for decreasing that. I believe the when individuals, you realize, people across the workplace who’re about to fly, been asking me for Hey, what ought to I do about this? And I mentioned, the one factor, like, when you simply can bear in mind, one factor is, is beneath expose. I don’t know precisely the the science behind it but. Maybe don you might again me up on this, however I believe as we transition to we transition to mirrorless cameras, the place you’re not trying by means of an optical chain, you’re , you realize, a digital display by means of the view finder, it simply the entire dynamic vary isn’t represented. And so I believe I had an inclination early on to overexpose, after which I’m discovering later that a variety of these pictures, I’ve misplaced some knowledge, as a result of it’s all, it’s all, it’s all white, simply on the brilliant facet. So underexposed the photographs and I’m taking I’ve seen some actually, actually darkish pictures that come to the viewfinder or or of their uncooked type of the pc, or darkish. But after I, you realize, open it up with a pc, I can see a lot, and I’m like, Oh man, I want I’d underexposed extra pictures.

 

Don Pettit

And a variety of recovering the element within the underexposed picture facilities round having giant bit vary for every pixel. And at present our cameras are 14 bit which is like one half in 16,000 and when you might go to 16 bit, man, then, then the quantity of element you possibly can pull out is, is wonderful. And, and when you’ve, oh, when you’ve saturated a pixel, when you’ve made snow white, whiter than snow white. There’s no, no extra data you possibly can pull out of that. But when you’re you’re beneath uncovered, and also you’ve received sufficient dynamic vary by way of your bit depth you possibly can, you might stretch that publish flight.

 

Matt Dominick

Yeah, I spent I began taking pictures. Because I wasn’t precisely certain what to do, and I had server area, I began taking pictures bracketed pictures. So each each set off spree squeeze on the digicam, or, I suppose you say shutter launch, however each shot a launch of the digicam, you I’d shoot three photographs, or typically 5 photographs throughout, you realize, perhaps minus 4, minus two, straight on, plus two, plus 4. So I’d shoot 5 photographs with each shutter launch, simply in order that I might bracket it and work out, Okay, later, you realize the minus two. And so I bear in mind one time particularly, I used to be within the cupola. Mike Barratt was there, crewmate, and he was taking pictures. I used to be taking pictures. I simply noticed the way in which the moon was arising and the clouds was superior. And so I actually simply put the digicam over his shoulder and simply shot it actually fast, and it being considered one of my favourite pictures of the way in which the moon was arising. But the important thing to that picture was I used to be taking pictures 5, you realize, a 5-f bracket. And the one shot that ended up being good was the one which was one over 32,000 on shutter velocity. It was the actually, actually darkish picture that was in a position to pull out a lot element, proper? I didn’t have time to take a seat there and get the settings proper. The timing was good. And that will be the opposite problem of taking footage in orbit is how briskly we’re shifting. So you’re shifting so quick you possibly can watch the moon rise. You might bodily see it shifting and so rapidly, taking pictures over any person else’s shoulder, by means of eight reflective surfaces and getting it good. It’s form of good to have a single squeeze of the shutter launch, popping off 5 pictures.

 

Don Pettit

And speaking about bracketing, the overexposed pictures, if you say, say you you need three ranges of underexposed, three stops of underexposed. Said, You’ve received to take the additional two to a few stops of overexposed which usually doesn’t have the knowledge you need, and I discovered with the Z9 do three underexposed footage with out getting the 2 overexposed footage so that you so you might seize the identical factor with three pictures, as an alternative of taking 5 and having to throw two away.

 

Matt Dominick

Oh, Don informed me about this when he was on orbit and I used to be nonetheless on Earth, and I used to be like, Ah, why didn’t I consider this?!

 

Don Pettit

Yeah,it’s simply, it’s the nuances of those skilled stage cameras that NASA supplies, each buying and selling for and we now have them on orbit. There’s a variety of completely different settings and understanding how one can mess with the settings to do issues that perhaps the digicam wasn’t actually supposed to do, however you wish to warp fade so as to seize the imagery you keep in mind. And it takes a great understanding of the digicam operation with a view to do this.

 

Matt Dominick

Yeah, so I believe the primary piece of recommendation is underexpose. The second one, nicely, I don’t know which one’s first. Maybe the opposite ones first, the considered one of them is important to grasp the primary rules of what’s going on in your digicam. Understand how the you realize CCD works. Understand like there’s so many pixels there, perceive the bit depth that Don talked about. Understand aperture, shutter, ISO and the way they relate and what the commerce offs are, proper? If I must quick shutter velocity as a result of the earth is shifting, what am I keen to compromise by way of ISO and accepting noise with ISO, understanding that there’s two native ISOs within the Z9 simply understanding the physics of what your digicam’s doing, as a result of then you possibly can adapt to any operational setting actual time. Like you possibly can go, oh, that’s one thing I hadn’t predicted, a state of affairs I hadn’t anticipated to be in. But as a result of I perceive first precept physics of how my digicam works, I understand how to all of the trades and stability these items actual time to get a picture in a brief time frame.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

You guys touched upon so many components that I actually wished to dive into. And considered one of them was, I imply, we touched just a little bit about lighting, which I wish to come again to. But you realize you’re speaking about, you realize, trial and error, what works greatest and what settings work greatest. So let’s discuss self modifying. When you’re on orbit, do you have got alternatives to self edit and self critique your work? Because, such as you mentioned, you’re making an attempt to seize sure moments in sure methods, and you could get that, you realize, like that 5 body at completely different settings that you just’re . But how are you going to use that data in actual time to make actual time changes on the fly?

 

Don Pettit

Okay, okay, Matthew…

 

Matt Dominick

I’m having a great time watching Don’s physique language when you ask this query.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna discuss in regards to the gorilla within the room, or the pink elephant, or no matter. Odd station. The we now have laptop computer computer systems that we use for mainly working station, and so they’re a GUI entrance finish for really working the true computer systems that bodily function station. And these computer systems do their job exceedingly nicely, however they’re like 15 yr previous know-how. And if you wish to use them for doing superior picture evaluation, they don’t work very nicely. And you possibly can’t even play a 2k film with out it skipping and stopping about each 5 seconds. You might play, you might play an HD video, however when you’re utilizing like a Z 9 digicam, and also you’re taking pictures an 8k video, you possibly can’t even watch the video. You can’t even see what you’ve accomplished except it’s within the digicam itself. So that’s so that you ask, how will we overview these picture the photographs we shot, nonetheless pictures, even, even with a forty five megabit per nonetheless picture form of factor, it it’s form of gradual to overview these items on orbit. And it’s one thing that I’d do sufficient overview to see if I’m getting technically good pictures and if the composition is alongside my line. And then I don’t overview anymore as a result of I’d quite take extra footage. Rather than spend an hour a pc making an attempt to see how the photographs had been that I simply took, I’d quite take that additional hour and take extra footage. Anyway, after you perceive that the imagery you’re taking appears to be working.

 

Matt Dominick

That’s that’s the vital half. You don’t have an you don’t wish to spend time on this distinctive place modifying pictures when you might be taking extra. But it’s tremendous vital to just be sure you’re not taking horrible pictures. So you must do some stage of overview. And I used to be in a position to leverage a variety of good people on Earth, saying, taking pictures a bunch of pictures down and saying, “Hey, is this? Is this working?” And some good people on Earth would go take a look at them and go, Hey, tweak this. Tweak that give me some recommendation, repair this. And then that suggestions loop would drive higher pictures later. But simply spending that form of time wasn’t obtainable, and the velocity of computer systems isn’t such. So doing time on there’s, there have been another choices that you might put it onto an iPad that’s received a greater dynamic vary than the computer systems on Earth, and you might see just a little bit extra element in these items. But take extra footage

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Kind of lends to the terabyte sizes that you just guys are speaking about for the quantity of images you discuss and also you had been saying you’re nonetheless coming by means of a few of them and reliving what you’ve accomplished.

 

Matt Dominick

I imply, I took whereas I used to be in orbit, I took, like, those that had been actually apparent, made fast edits to them, after which pushed them off to social platforms after which to NASA, saying, Hey, that is one we must always spotlight. But these had been simply the very easy ones to form of strategy. Looking at them now, I’m going by means of extra of the technical ones now that I’ve constructed I’ve been focusing for six months, since they’re again on infrastructure, so I’ve been constructing infrastructure and workflows to take that imagery after which make merchandise from it, or make, you realize, cool stuff from it. But I’ve simply been centered on infrastructure and workflows solely. I’m getting shut, in all probability inside a few weeks, of transitioning to pushing and pushing imagery out the stuff that hasn’t been launched but.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, and speaking in regards to the infrastructure, the simply reminiscence that you just want. You might take a forty five megabyte uncooked picture, and you might work on it in Adobe Photoshop, and it turns it right into a DNG, a digital adverse file, and as an alternative of being 45 megabytes, now it’s 150 megabytes, so it’s thrice bigger than what the unique picture was. And if that is a part of a 3000 body time lapse, the place every of the photographs you course of earlier than you drop it into Premiere to make your film clip out of you possibly can see how your 60 terabytes of uncooked pictures now might simply flip into 200 terabytes of pictures by the point you’re accomplished. And then do you? Do you trash all of those intermediate pictures. What occurs if you find yourself with this premier timeline and also you make a cool video clip, after which it’s like, wow, I wish to change one thing. Do you wish to return and need to recreate all of that? Or do you wish to save all these intermediate steps? And I like to avoid wasting the intermediate steps. So I might return and and make a distinct model at will. So so your reminiscence requirement, storage, reminiscence for these items, might simply balloon.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

And on that too. I with these challenges within the quantity of images that you just take. You can attempt to overview as a lot as you possibly can, however maintain taking pictures. I’ll mix these two nuggets that you just guys had been speaking about earlier collectively. It’s it’s lighting and the orbital velocity wherein you’re shifting right here on Earth. If you’re taking images, or you realize, commencement images, marriage ceremony images, you realize, that magical Golden Hour, as individuals wish to name it, whether or not you realize, simply after solar, dawn or simply earlier than sundown, when you realize pictures can are inclined to shine brightest and the perfect. And by way of that point of day. Is there such a factor on the International Space Station by way of a peak time you’re making an attempt to seize?

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, there’s the golden 5 seconds.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski 

Yeah I used to be going to say, it’s not an hour. It can’t be an hour!

 

Don Pettit 

But relaxation assured, 90 minutes later, you’ll have one other golden 5 seconds, perhaps 10 seconds.

 

Matt Dominick

That’s that’s so true. It was so superior. You might, you might get, you realize, you don’t get the golden hour without delay. Cumulative over the entire day, perhaps between sunrises and sunsets. One of the methods I employed looking for that perfect lighting case was establishing time lapses so I’d be busy in the course of the day doing my my actual job.

 

Don Pettit

Hold on, you had an actual job?

 

Matt Dominick

I don’t assume I’ve had an actual job my complete life. I’ve been 20 years of doing loopy issues. But the you’d I’d arrange the digicam. For instance, there was this one window I actually liked within the Russian section, trying aft in direction of the service module. And the within the Russian photo voltaic race and repair module this sensible, wonderful blue colour, and so they replicate simply because the solar comes up, the sunshine hits them, and it makes this sensible blue for only a couple frames. And it’s simply wonderful. And so I spend a variety of time making an attempt to determine, when is that lighting good. And as an alternative of simply staring out the window for 90 minutes after I’m imagined to be doing my precise job, I’d arrange a digicam to take an image each, you realize, perhaps quarter second each half second, after which Don, Don’s received it. Don, Oh, yep, sure! Don has an image of this.

 

Don Pettit

I name it “Abalone” as a result of, as a result of these photo voltaic panels appear to be an abalone shell.

 

Matt Dominick

For these, for these watching at dwelling, don’t received an important image proper now in entrance of us of those simply sensible blues and the way they replicate off the Russian photo voltaic arrays. Both Don and I’ve posted a few of these footage on-line. But to get that proper because the solar rises, it simply arrange the time lapse, and it’s taken an image each quarter second, each half second, and then you definitely come again later, and you’ve got the digicam set as much as make a video. So it takes all of the uncooked pictures, nevertheless it makes a video. And I can go watch a 90 second video and discover what a part of the orbit, the lighting is ideal, after which arrange the digicam and the precise publicity for the following the following lap, and seize a bunch of sensible stills.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

That was an important one, by the way in which. And once more, when you’re at dwelling otherwise you’re in a secure area, to take action, I hope you proceed to comply with alongside and watch and check out what Don and Matt have put collectively on their social channels in nasa.gov as Don pulled up considered one of his pictures that he took throughout considered one of his missions. But, nicely, now, I imply, let’s dive into the instruments of the commerce. We’ve talked about f-stops, we’ve talked about cameras and Z 9s and Z’s and Z’s and A’s and B’s. Let’s go forward and get to it. Let’s discuss gear. What form of cameras and lenses do you utilize on station? Do you favor on station? Do you have got, you realize, a, 1A and a 1B by way of favorites, or is all of it simply on a case by case foundation, what you attempt to pull from by way of your your holster of drugs to drag off of?

 

Matt Dominick

Man, when you needed to choose one thing quick, I like quick, quick lenses.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, quick. That’s proper, quick lenses at quick assembly, they’ve a big optical diameter in comparison with their focal size, in order that they will suck in a variety of gentle.

 

Matt Dominick

Right. I like quick lenses, as a result of I can suck in a variety of gentle. I can do quick shutter speeds. It’s nice for evening. I believe it’s nice for contained in the area station. The area station lighting is just not tremendous shiny, and so persons are shifting, and I wish to take candids of individuals whereas they’re working. And when you’re going to try this, it’s form of annoying to have a flash on. So having a quick lens contained in the cabin to seize your crew mates working, you possibly can rapidly do it, you realize, inside cause, at a fairly quick shutter velocity with out getting a variety of movement blur. So quick lenses are nice for inside, they’re nice for outdoor. They’re nice. They’re simply, if I needed to choose one factor, it’s I need a quicker lens. I’d sometimes go across the area station discover all of the quick lenses.

 

Don Pettit

And and you must outline what do you imply by quick. Pick a quantity.

 

Matt Dominick

Aperture, 1.4 Okay, 1.4 that’s an important one which we now have.

 

Don Pettit 

1.2

 

Matt Dominick 

Yeah, 1.2 is sweet. We don’t have a variety of these, however we now have, we do have the 50 millimeter 1.2.

 

Don Pettit

We’ve received the mid-80s nocto evening core, 58 millimeter f/1.2.

 

Matt Dominick

When you imply, you mentioned mid-80s, you imply Eighties.

 

Don Pettit 

Yeah.

 

Matt Dominick 

Yeah. It’s nice. That’s an important it’s an important lens, however that 58 millimeter is one other nice 1.2. For the home windows we now have the 24 and 28 millimeter 1.4 work out fairly nicely. Man, it’s been eight months, however 9 months, however I might in all probability bear in mind the settings typical time lapse at evening is sort of a quarter second.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, quarter second. ISO, 6400 f/1.4.

 

Matt Dominick

I imply, is there one other a part of the lens you utilize aside from 1.4 that you might go to different f-stops? But not sometimes, I’ve at all times received that they locked in at 1.4.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, one other. They the Nikon 50 millimeter f/1.2 lens, the main focus mechanism on it strikes actually. It doesn’t have a variety of friction related to it, and it’s actual straightforward to bump it. So you you get it centered in on stars beneath magnification. And then I’d take have a chunk of Kapton tape, and I’d tape it in that location, as a result of it’s really easy to bump the main focus ring inadvertently if you’re shifting the digicam round to get the composition you need. And simply change the main focus barely, after which the celebrities aren’t pinpoints anymore. And I gotta have stars which can be pinpoints, or I’m not completely happy.

 

Matt Dominick

It’s a really cheap request Don. I believe that like to provide individuals a way of what it’s wish to arrange perhaps an evening time lapse. You know, it’s after dinner. It’s a pleasant night. Crewmates have gone off to sleep. You float into the cupola. It’s, you’re set, you realize, it’s the solar is simply set on an evening go. This is Radio. We need to, we now have to set the image proper, like, it’s form of like War of the Worlds. The so, you realize, you form of float within the cupola. It’s quiet, aside from for simply the followers buzzing on the area station. And you’re alone, like orbiting the Earth, simply whizzing by. And it’s simply you have got this lovely seven home windows to your self onto the world. And so you have got and also you’re surrounded by perhaps 4 or 5 Z 9 cameras and an array of lenses to select from. And you, you realize, you pop on just like the 24 millimeter or 28 millimeter f/1.4 for that evening go, and also you set me 1 / 4 second, 1600 ISO. And then, yeah, that’s about, proper? Those are all of the settings you want, however you set it up with a shroud, so this large shroud that’s completely reduce to the window, and it velcros across the window, after which the digicam suits by means of a small slot so that you just don’t get any reflections from any electronics.

 

Don Pettit

It’s material. It’s like two layers of actually dense black material.

 

Matt Dominick

Gets rid of all of your reflections. And, you realize, it might I had this wonderful picture I took, apart from I had this little gentle leak within the backside proper, and no one sees it however me. But I see this little gentle leak within the backside proper of this picture and it drives me bonkers!

 

Don Pettit

I see that, these too. This is an instance. When you place a lens right into a shroud, you have got little pull twine to form of maintain gentle from leaking round and and pulling that little twine after which shifting the digicam for the ultimate composition. That’s when the main focus ring can get bumped. And then you definitely not have stars at pinpoints. They appear to be little pigeons or little comets and, and, and that’s, you realize, that’s why I’d tape the main focus.

 

Matt Dominick

Absolutely. So you’d arrange the digicam, and you’d level it at us, you realize, out to the composition you need. And we had pre programmed one of many buttons on the digicam to go from common zoom right into a, you realize, it could zoom in on the view finder to excessive tight zoom. And, you realize, you might transfer round with the little digital pad. You might transfer round the place it’s pointing, and you’d go discover a star.

 

Don Pettit 

And then you definitely’d focus.

 

Matt Dominick 

And you focus and make that star. So Don’s speaking in regards to the star appears to be like form of like just a little diamond or flat, and also you form of focus till it’s an ideal circle, and you’ll strategy from the left, or you possibly can strategy from the precise, and also you form of get all arrange so you have got a superbly spherical star. And then that’s the very last thing I do earlier than I set off the time lapse. And so it’s not bumped otherwise you tape it down.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah. And it would typically too, when you’re you’re establishing, with a view to give attention to a star, it needs to be darkish sufficient to see the celebrities. And if you wish to begin gentle, like, say, you’re doing a comet, a sequence of comet footage, and also you wish to get the comet proper in regards to the time the solar units, you possibly can’t give attention to the star as a result of it’s too shiny to see the celebrities to give attention to. So perhaps the go earlier than you’d have centered on stars taped the main focus ring with this Kapton tape and after which assume that the main focus was going to remain for the following go, and also you study your lenses, and also you study that, hey, I might tape the main focus ring down and it it is going to be in sharp give attention to on the following go and the following go or the following go, except somebody like Matthew got here in and messed with it.

 

Matt Dominick

I’ll write in your Kapton tape “Matt was here.” So you are taking all these photographs and also you make some selections about- there’s a setting within the digicam referred to as Long Exposure noise discount, and in order that’s an choice the place you’d, it could take the picture after which it could shut the sensor protector. I believe it’s referred to as, it’s not likely, it’s not likely a shutter anymore.

 

Don Pettit

I at all times name it a shutter. If it covers a sensor and it makes a clicking sound like a shutter. I name it a shutter.

 

Matt Dominick

*Quacking sound* If it walks like a duck. Yeah, like a duck. I suppose it’s a shutter. So the it’s the shutter, after which the digicam will take a picture with the shutter closed. And in order that method it may possibly see what sort of sensors sensor noise is there from results of radiation impacts, and proper? And so our cameras can choose up a variety of unhealthy pixels because of radiation. So then the digicam can do some in digicam noise discount. You may also do this after the very fact it though it’s not pretty much as good, I don’t assume.

 

Don Pettit

I agree. I agree there’s magic that when it occurs within the digicam with the identical chip and the identical electronics, and also you, you are taking the uncooked information, make them into tiffs, after which do subtraction on a laptop computer afterwards, and it doesn’t do pretty much as good a job.

 

Matt Dominick

No. And Don’s speaking about you are taking after you do your nighttime lapse, you are taking down the digicam, you cowl it up, the lens, however darkish, and then you definitely take on the similar ISO, proper? And you are taking some darkish body photographs, and then you definitely use these to subtract it later.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, and I’d do darkish frames earlier than a time lapse, when the digicam’s at no matter temperature occurs to be, after which a half hour later, when it’s been working full time taking footage, a digicam physique warms up and the noise stage adjustments. And I’d take a sequence of darkish frames after the the sequence, after which, relying on what sort of methods you wish to do, I’d take the the primary 1/3 of the sequence, and I’d use the primary darkish body, after which the final third of that sequence, I’d use the ultimate darkish body, after which I take the 2 darkish frames and mix them collectively and use that for the center third. And that’s when you actually wish to get nerdy by way of noise discount.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

And that was considered one of my questions I had for you guys, is, you form of talked about, you realize, reflections and thru the a number of ranges. But I imply what you’re uncovered to and the way gentle reacts and responds to what you’re seeing on the International Space Station is just a little completely different than if we had been to go outdoors right here on Earth in the present day. So I imply issues like radiation and the way gentle displays or refracts, how a lot of that performed into your planning of what you had been making an attempt to shoot, when you had been making an attempt to get anyone pinpointed merchandise,

 

Matt Dominick

It’s a, enjoying all of the lighting and the timing collectively is, is a problem. I spent weeks on one {photograph} making an attempt to get that good, like I ended up making a small video of how I ended up doing it and was in a position to get all of the crew members. But getting all these items collectively is hard. And the precise case was the Dragon on the highest of the area station. Another time period is zenith. So the Dragon has home windows that face ahead, station ahead, after which we had the Starliner up there briefly that had a window that appeared up in direction of it. And so establishing the digicam in there, taking footage at evening up in direction of dragon. Dragon’s too darkish, since you wished to seize the Milky Way galaxy behind it, and so to have the publicity needed and the darkness essential to see that it simply, Dragon wasn’t coming into view. And so discovered that the moon was rising on the horizon earlier than the solar, and there’s a short second when simply the tip of the moon was rising above horizon, and that offered simply sufficient gentle to light up Dragon, however not sufficient to drown out the Milky Way behind it. And so getting that timing each orbit, there was a couple of second to 2 second interval the place the sunshine was good. And so setting that digicam up on a on a time lapse, so it retains taking that image, getting that arrange, figuring out when the moon is gonna the moon rise, not the solar. The solar’s too shiny at evening to get all of that after which floating off myself and getting up into the Dragon, after which getting the lighting proper inside Dragon. So I took these little lights within the Dragon, little LED lights, and put them all the way down to 1% just like the lowest setting, however that was nonetheless too shiny, coated it with a washcloth to get it dim, after which put that off of my face and that, as a result of that was so, so dim, after which that allowed an image of me to be taken within the Dragon searching into the galaxy, proper from the Starliner, trying up. It’s my it’s it took weeks to get that discovered.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

And that’s the fantastic thing about the artwork kind, is what you needed to take to get to it. And, Wow, that’s unimaginable.

 

Matt Dominick

But we received it all the way down to a science such that then someday, I’d simply rotated all my crewmates by means of so they might we might have an image of them within the Dragon searching, as a result of we knew each orbit. But there was simply this bizarre sequence of occasions for per week or two the place the moon would rise simply earlier than the solar. Don’s received his as nicely. Same form of idea, Don searching of the cupola. Oh, that’s completely cool.

Don Pettit

It is. And I did the identical trick with a mini magazine flashlight and a material handkerchief over it to subdue it and it. And it takes many, many tries to get the lighting in your face to match all of the lighting that you really want for the automobile and Earth or no matter.

 

Matt Dominick

Yeah. So that is a kind of instances the place I used to be like, This is a narrative to inform, the story of how this picture is made.  And so I made a video of how I set all of it up, and made a video the digicam arrange and talked to the digicam, after which despatched all the massive B-roll information all the way down to earth and a few nice people right here on earth edited together to tell that story in a video we could share.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

And leaning proper into that too. I imply this video once more, or this picture that Don simply shared once more, it’s very precisely what Matt’s speaking about with with the sunshine reflecting on him as Don appears to be like out of the cupola all the way down to earth. One of the opposite issues that I really like about not solely your nonetheless photographs, is your lengthy exposures, and that’s one thing that I’d love to speak about with you guys. And once more, for these listening, you possibly can go on nasa.gov  and go to the expedition website, so you possibly can see a variety of their work. You can see Matt’s lengthy exposures, Don’s lengthy exposures. And with that, you probably did a variety of time lapses, which we’ve been speaking about, of, you realize, Dragon on strategy, or Dragon backing away, you realize, in numerous, you realize, area ops, however behind it, you see simply these lovely streaks of sunshine, whether or not they’re stars, whether or not the cities under, whether or not it’s the Aurora arising beneath it. Talk to me about a few of that artwork kind that goes behind, not simply nonetheless pictures and capturing one second in time, however capturing an unlimited second of time that covers, you realize, from the celebrities to the earth to the you realize, whether or not it’s a spacecraft concerned, or, I believe, in picture we’re proper now’s the photo voltaic arrays within the International Space Station in a sure place. But I’d like to study extra about your time lapse and the way you guys like to calculate that imaginative and prescient you have got for capturing the earth within the area above it, in addition to you realize the objects within the close to floor.

Don Pettit

The star trails, or these lengthy publicity pictures the place the orbital movement makes something that produces gentle right into a streak, they’re considered one of my favorites. And you might do it primarily at evening, and out of each 90 minutes, you solely have about half-hour of actually darkish, darkish. And so you might do as much as a 30 minute publicity. But you don’t simply go away the shutter open for half-hour, you do a complete sequence of 15 to 30 second exposures, and then you definitely stack them collectively in utilizing software program to make successfully a 30 minute publicity.

 

Matt Dominick

Yeah, this appears to be like like, you possibly can see that, when you look actually rigorously, you possibly can see the place the shutter closes briefly and begins once more, proper?

 

Don Pettit 

That’s the write time to disk. To reminiscence.

 

Matt Dominick 

Right. And in order that’s what Don’s speaking in regards to the shutter closes, and it writes it to the disk, after which it begins the following picture. And you possibly can see it, when you look intently on the pictures, the way it’s composed from a number of pictures. But it received to the purpose I might, in some unspecified time in the future, and it’s been some time, it’s been eight months, that I might take a look at the size of the streak and let you know the publicity size, proper? So I believe these are in all probability 15 to twenty seconds publicity,

 

Don Pettit 

30 seconds.

 

Matt Dominick 

Just by trying on the size of the streak, I don’t know, the f-stop.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah. And the phenomenology, the pure phenomenology you might see at considered one of these footage, I might discuss for nearly half-hour on simply the pure state of what you see on this image that’s utterly impartial on whether or not you assume it has an esthetic measure to it, however there’s simply so a lot earth science that speaks out in considered one of these footage.

 

Matt Dominick

And this appears to be like like simply you possibly can see lightning strike proper there that occurred. It appears to be like prefer it’s about simply that solar’s about to rise. You can see the solar like that is only a couple seconds previous to dawn. Yeah, proper. As it begins to light up. The sky with the blues after which the greens and the oranges within the environment, you might, you’ve stared at this so many instances. You begin to choose up like this as a cloud streak. But these are, you realize, clear metropolis gentle streaks.

 

Don Pettit

And then the the horizon view of the environment. The scale peak is about 120 kilometers, and the environment typically glows form of this greenish glow. It form of appears to be like like a slice of key lime pie caught on the sting of Earth and and the 120 kilometers that’s, that’s about 400,000 ft. That’s entry interface for spacecraft. Right on the fringe of that’s the place spacecraft begin to get actually sizzling, after which above this glowing key lime pie, above that, you’ll see some faint purple, and that’s referred to as the F area within the environment, and that’s centered proper round 400 kilometers. So so we on station are at 400 kilometers. We’re flying by means of this purple zone above the inexperienced zone. And anyway, the physics behind what you might see in these footage is simply one thing that I might discuss. I might discuss for for hours on simply what you see in these

 

Matt Dominick

I believe, man, we simply must get extra individuals to area. I take a look at this image, and I notice I can decompose like, what, how Don took that image, as a result of I can see the small artifacts and the way the sunshine, you possibly can see the little little bit of blue arising on only one facet of the area station there, and it may possibly form of infer, like, what orbit they’re in, or the place they’re at orbital, the place he’s on the area station, simply having stared at it for eight months. You know, each small element of that picture. We simply want to provide extra individuals to area to expertise this. Don’s received one other picture coming.

Don Pettit

Yes, one other what? And simply cool stuff. Here’s the purple half, the F area, and that’s because of atomic oxygen emitting round 630 nanometers. And right here’s the form of the yellowish. In this case, it appears to be like extra yellowish. That’s the environment that you would be able to see about 120 kilometers. If you take a look at the arcing of the celebrities, when you look to your port or starboard facet, the celebrities are stepping into circles. But when you look within the velocity vector, the celebrities go in a straight line and and that is all easy geometry of what your orbit is doing. And then, then a single thunderstorm. As a operate of time, it goes flash, and it’ll be darkish for a bit, after which there’s movement, and it goes flash once more, after which darkish, after which flash, and little flash, after which a giant flash, after which darkish and and so you possibly can see a time historical past of a single of a single thunderstorm. And then you definitely take a look at the the cities there, there, in the event that they’re yellow orange, like that. It’s a sodium vapor. If they’re bluish inexperienced, it’s mercury vapor. And if it appears to be like like all these pastel sweet colours, sometimes over Southeast Asia, they’re all LEDs.

 

Matt Dominick

There’s, there’s a lot data in these little footage. If you’d perceive, just like the science and physics and the place you’ve been, what’s occurring. I really feel like that. We want to offer you a listing of hyperlinks that you would be able to put in.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

I see Dane taking a variety of notes right here, on web page right here, go right here.

 

Matt Dominick

But like a listing of hyperlinks for the to for the listeners to perhaps click on on later to grasp it or comply with together with a few of these image descriptions, as a result of there’s loads occurring right here.

 

Don Pettit

Oh, oh, I received a this one. I name this one “Lightning Bugs.” It’s simply, it’s simply saturated with with simply intense lightning storms, anyway…

Matt Dominick

So many the lightning storms are spectacular.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Well, with that, lightning is a fleeting second. So right here on the lengthy exposures the place you see these streaks, and, such as you mentioned, lightning bugs that simply populate your complete discipline of view, just lately, near the time of this recording, we’ve seen, you realize, and in your conversations that you just guys had collectively on Twitch, about a number of, you realize, occasions on earth that you just attempt to seize, whether or not they’re referred to as purple sprites or gigantic jets or, you realize, pure phenomena that occur on earth that we hear under the clouds can’t see. And would like to dive into how you intend for a few of these fleeting moments and people these luminous occasions that occur above the clouds and above the environment, that if you seize them, it’s like capturing a bolt of lightning in an ideal body shot, and the way you’ll be able to handle and plan for a few of these occasions.

 

Matt Dominick

Luck. Well, I imply, not fully luck, however we all know the place the strongest thunderstorms are, and we simply arrange cameras and hearth 1000s of photographs, sure, hoping that considered one of them captures it. I imply, in all probability, I in all probability thought shot 50,000 pictures simply making an attempt to seize sprites, and perhaps received three, wow. And then Nichole, like, per week in the past. Yeah, whoa, probably the most insane.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Yeah, that’s the one I’m referencing.

Matt Dominick

That shot from Nicole is simply insane. Yeah, the timing, the the place it’s, it’s it’s simply spectacular.

 

Don Pettit

Although you caught a sprite or an enormous jet proper on the limb of the earth and and I like that, since you might use the size scales that you realize within the environment as a ruler, to truly measure, to place, put a hyperlink scale on the the enormous jet. Anyway.

Matt Dominick

So the one which I used to be fortunate to get on the horizon, you’re speaking about, like, Don like, I took this image. I used to be like, holy cow, that is wonderful.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, I used to be nonetheless on earth at the moment, you, I hadn’t gotten, we hadn’t…

 

Matt Dominick

So Don did the evaluation and made this actually cool infographic displaying, you realize, that is the peak of the sprite primarily based upon the environment. It was 120 kilometers, or one thing like that. And so from a science perspective, it’s, it’s fairly image. I’m just a little bit biased, nevertheless it’s a reasonably image.

 

Don Pettit

But Nichole’s kicked you.

 

Matt Dominick

Nichole’s image is so lovely as a result of it’s proper there within the heart of the body. Yeah, the composition is wonderful. You received the CanadArm off to the precise, yeah, letting individuals know, like, that is taken from a spacecraft by a human. Like it simply in. The sprite is beautiful, and it’s proper there.

 

Don Pettit

It is, and you might see the entire structural element of it from beginning off trying extra like a blue jet, after which it branches off into spriteness.

 

Matt Dominick

What’s attention-grabbing, I don’t I haven’t adopted purple sprites a complete lot in the midst of my profession, and we’re we capturing greater than we used to?

 

Don Pettit

I believe it has to do with with the event of of top quality digital cameras. And I believe, I believe these items have been round earlier than human beings had been even round. And I do know, you realize, you realize something about these, these fighter pilot sorts, and they’d, they’d be flying in airplanes and say, Hey, I noticed this upward directed lightning, and it was form of pink, and it appeared prefer it went to excessive altitude. Everybody thought they had been loopy. They had been they had been seeing issues. You know, you’d been flying too lengthy, and also you had been hallucinating, after which, after which individuals began to get some footage of them when the digital cameras got here out. And these, the these items, transient luminous occasions, these was once referred to as Upward directed lightning, the place there’s nonetheless a variety of unknown by way of how these shades work, clearly, they do. And the extra imagery we might get of those, say, the extra we’re going to study.

 

Matt Dominick

And there’s a gaggle of parents on earth. You form of have your storm changers, your lightning chasers, twister chasers, yeah. So you have got a gaggle of parents which can be really chasing these from Earth and take some actually unimaginable footage of unimaginable footage of them from Earth trying up. And there’s a gaggle of individuals making an attempt to match these earth primarily based pictures of purple sprites with area born ones. Yeah.

 

Don Pettit

And one concept that was significantly my skills on orbit was to get nadir views of lightning and or blue jet sprites and large jets, one thing that you would be able to’t do from Earth or from airplanes You can’t get above these to get a straight nadir downward view. But from area station, you possibly can you fly proper over these, and when you set the cameras up accurately, you might begin to picture these lightning storms. And each on occasion, you may catch a blue jet, a sprite or an enormous jet, and you might spatially see the place they kind in relationship to the remainder of the thunderstorm. Where, when you’re on a sideways view, you may not essentially be capable to see that data and that that’s one thing that that Nichole Ayers has picked up on and is is continuous to try this.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

I’ve a pair extra for you. Guys. I do know we’re actually entering into this, however we in all probability want a pair extra hours. Guys, you good? We can maintain going. Okay, maintain rolling. Okay, no, I’m simply kidding for us right here on Earth with the teachings you’ve discovered, whether or not it’s in your coaching, whether or not it’s on, you realize, your practices on orbit, after which coming again to Earth for these I imply, we’ve discovered in regards to the tech. We’ve discovered in regards to the sciences, what to search for, what the setting ought to be. But if I wished to create that International Space Station aesthetic and. Give it. Give my images that Matt Dominic and Don Pettit decide, if you’ll, what are in all probability a number of the greatest ways in which I might accomplish that in my pictures right here on Earth?

 

Don Pettit

Take a lot of footage. Understand your digicam.

 

Matt Dominick

Tell a narrative. Like the world that don’t cease being curious in regards to the world round you, like, it’s, it’s, I believe you, I believe you actually turn into previous if you cease asking why, and if you cease being curious. Don. Don’s perhaps a pair years older than me, however, however Don is just not previous. Don’s not previous.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, inform that to my spouse.

 

Matt Dominick

Don’s not previous, like Don remains to be… Don. If you watch Don stroll down the road, Don will cease and take a look at ants and see how the ant trails transfer. Don will cease and take a look at butterflies and attempt to perceive why they’re going this manner. Look at bees and take a look at different issues. He’s by no means stopped being curious in regards to the world round him and attempt to perceive. And when you’re a cool solution to seize that’s to take the imagery of it, proper, and to see that. And so when you simply have that mindset, you’re by no means going to be previous, and also you’re going to take nice footage.

 

Don Pettit

Ooh, ooh! Butterflies! Now you say you assume the butterflies are these flighty fades, and so they they’re they don’t know fly very nicely, as a result of they’re simply flighty throughout. Well, you I’d sit within the yard watching monarchs, and there have been two monarch butterflies and it was just like the these butterflies are performing some form of mating flight. And they’re such precision flyers if you see these two butterflies flying in formation, they’re higher than than what you might do as a fighter pilot, and for flying in formation, I imply. And so that you, you assume, you assume these flighty butterflies are, the world’s worst flying insect, as a result of they’re simply bouncing throughout, and so they know precisely what they’re doing. And if there’s one other butterfly they wish to get with, they might fly in an incredible formation sample.

 

Matt Dominick

I wish to submit this as proof for my prior my prior speculation. Don has not misplaced curiosity.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

And that’s an exquisite factor to have and proceed, whether or not you’re right here on earth or up on the International Space Station. My final query for the 2 of you earlier than I allow you to go and once more, thanks a lot on your time and and sharing this perception, and for us to comply with together with what imagery and and movies and stills and time lapses that you just’ve been in a position to produce for us, if, when you had been in a position to return up on orbit tomorrow and also you had the tools you wished with you. Is there a bucket record of images or an merchandise or an occasion that you just hope to seize? We’ve talked about comets. We’ve talked about, you realize, electrical discharges and sprites and main occasions. We’ve talked about, you realize, sure passes over sure cities. But if there was one thing that you just actually received to hone in on and knew it was coming, or perhaps simply by unintended shock. Is there a bucket record of of things that you just hope to photographer photographize? Is {that a} phrase?

 

Matt Dominick 

No.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski 

It is just not? All proper. Take footage of once more.

 

Matt Dominick

I gotta let Don shut this one out. So I’ll go first. I believe, I don’t know the precise reply. It would require some analysis and preparation, however I believe I wish to take a look at a number of the new tech on the market with extra dynamic vary. I believe, take a look at a number of the extra superior digital cinema cameras that may have extra dynamic vary in there. I believe I’d wish to do extra video as an alternative of particular person frames. I’d be involved about bandwidth. So I need extra knowledge to return down. But we had been, we had been pushing the boundaries of the bandwidth, of of the information hyperlink down. So you might need to take laborious drives up there, however I believe extra dynamic vary. The factor that was actually laborious to seize, I by no means actually did, was the transition between day to nighttime and evening to day, the sunshine and the colours on the area station are so insane in the course of the transition, and that’s simply actually, actually laborious to seize. Don and I talked about doing a full 90 minute time lapse, however the digicam setup to take action simply doesn’t work nicely. And then the opposite factor I’d do is extra video of the setups, and extra video of telling the tales and extra B roll to seize it.

 

Don Pettit

The state of the lenses proper now… I flew, I used to be in a position to discuss some people right here at NASA into funding a pair particular lenses for me, which really confirmed up earlier than I arrived and Matthew received a maintain of the lenses, however which is precisely how they need to be used, 14 millimeter f/1.4 leads, so, so earlier than that, the 24 millimeter was the one. Lightest angle lens that was actually quick glass. And now we’ve received the 14 millimeter. We’ve received a 15 millimeter Arri Zeiss Cinema Lens that we might adapt to to the Z 9 digicam. And that’s a T1.8 and cinema lenses, they don’t go by f-stop, they go by t-stop. And that’s one other podcast to elucidate that. But we’ve received considered one of every of these lenses, and I’d wish to have at the very least two extra of these lenses in order that you might put, you might arrange a number of cameras all with the identical lens, after which you might do, do what Matthew was speaking about, which is time lapse, a full go going by means of day and evening transition. And you might sync a number of cameras collectively and have the cameras working at completely different settings, in order that one can be extra arrange for the day, and one can be arrange by the evening, however they’d be synced collectively and after which you might assemble the photographs right into a excessive dynamic vary picture after the very fact. So that’s one sequence of pictures that if we might return, I’d do this. I’d wish to fly a laptop computer pc that might really play an 8k video, in order that we might see what we’re doing and will rapidly undergo the photographs in a overview method. And then I wish to re-fly this sidereal tracker that has been modified to trace at orbital charges, not earth rotation charges, and that means that you can take as much as a couple of 30 second publicity the place the celebrities can be factors and every part else can be blurry.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Well, I’m excited to see all of these from each of you. Thank you guys a lot for becoming a member of us on Houston. We have a podcast. I can’t wait to dive in. I’ve already taken 1001 notes, as has our crew. Our crew to to take higher footage right here on Earth. Matthew Dominic, Don Pettit, thanks.

 

Matt Dominick 

Thank you.

 

Don Pettit

Yeah, that is enjoyable. I imply, having the ability to get Matthew and I in the identical room and discuss imagery, I imply, enjoyable goes to occur.

 

Joseph Zakrzewski

Thanks for sticking round. I hope you discovered one thing new in the present day.

You can take a look at the newest from across the company nasa.gov and you could find out extra about our astronaut corps at nasa.gov/astronauts. If you wish to know extra about Matt and Don and their paths to turning into astronauts, you possibly can take a look at episodes 323 for Matt Dominick and 350 for Don Pettit. Those in all of our episodes may be discovered at nasa.gov/podcasts.

On social media we’re on the NASA Johnson Space Center pages of Facebook, X, and Instagram. If you have got any questions for us or solutions for future episodes, e-mail us at [email protected].

This interview was recorded on July 9, 2025.

Our producer is Dane Turner. Audio engineers are Will Flato and Daniel Tohill, and our social media is managed by Reagan Scharfetter. Houston We Have a Podcast was created and is supervised by Gary Jordan. Special due to Courtney Beasley, Chelsey Ballarte and Reagan Scharfetter for serving to us plan and arrange these interviews. And in fact, thanks once more to Don Pettit and Matt Dominick for taking the time to return on the present.

Give us a ranking and suggestions on no matter platform you’re listening to us on, and inform us what you consider our podcast.

We’ll be again subsequent week.

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